Talk:Rapture

Cool Trivia?

 * This is very neat... but it doesn't belong in the article. Google might not leave it this way forever, since it is a fictional location. ~Gardimuer    { ʈalk } 08:20, March 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Google Maps has accepted pictures of Rapture at the location stated at the top of this article. (Rapture on Google Maps)

Adthrawn - I've gone ahead and started up the Rapture article. I'm planning on putting the concept art as the concepts for Rapture. What do you think?

Coordinates for Rapture taken from flashback scene --Klivian 18:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The motto of Rapture is "No gods or kings." Although you can escape tyrants and kings, you can't escape God.

Has anyone else noticed that Andrew Ryan looks alot like Mr. House from Fallout New Vegas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 05:10, 2011 December 30 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Date of riots
One thing, the article cites the riots as starting on 31/12/1959, but wikipedia cites it as 31/12/1958. Which is right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 02:41, 2008 March 10 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * "happy new year 1959"? so 31/12/1958, a day before? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 06:07, 2009 January 15 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Lighthouse

 * One thing I find odd about Bioshock is that if Andrew Ryan was so concerned about Rapture being discovered by the surface world, then why did he build a huge lighthouse jutting out of the ocean? Anybody else find that a noticeable flaw in the storyline?Who Is Atlas? Code Yellow 16:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

---

'''Lots of gaps in logic in the game, whats one more??. Perhaps that 'lifeboat' thing Sinclair had at Persephone was to be a submergable replacement (never finished after Ryan was allegedly killed). Despite efforts, Rapture likely still was not self-sufficient, and authorized additional materials were brought in once in a while (requiring the function of the Lighthouse (to dock ships and to facilitate carrying cargo down...)'''

--- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:38, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * Yeh I know I mean it is so obvious that something is going on there, great City though. Locklear 86 20:42, 19 May, 2009


 * "Oh yeah let's build a giant light house between Iceland and Greenland no one will find it" Andrew Ryan's dumb ass-76.21.106.232 08:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Personally, when I see a lighthouse I think "oh look, a lighthouse". I don't think "Oh look, a lighthouse. That must double as an elevator to a hidden under water city." Maybe that's just me though lol.--92.9.39.137 19:03, September 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that a lighthouse can only be seen from a mile or two away, and this lighthouse is in the center of a stretch of ocean that measures over 100,000 miles 2 (according to the coordinates of the Frozen Triangle.) Just to put that in perspective for you, that is greater than the entire area of the state of Wyoming. Finding a single lighthouse in that vast expanse is not only improbable, it is a statistical impossibility unless you know its exact coordinates. The probability that someone will fly over in an airplane and happen to pass the exact point where the lighthouse is stationed... just doesn't exist.
 * In Ryan's words:

"A man builds a city at the bottom of the sea. That's a marvel. Another man happens to be on a plane that crash lands on the same city in the middle of the ocean. Why, that sounds more like ... a miracle."

- Andrew Ryan

--Gardimuer 00:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that lighthouses can not be stuck out in the middle of the ocean either. They have to be anchored to something. All of the real lighthouses in the world are built on dry land. So to comment on 92.9.39.137's comment about seeing a lighthouse, you'd have to wonder what one is doing way out in the middle of BFE in the ocean, if you did, in fact find it. And if Andrew Ryan was building a city in secret that was supposed to be perpetually evolving, I'll be SOMEONE would stumble on it in the next 50 plus years. That's too risky of a measure for an entire city structure.
 * However to bolster Gardimuer's comment about the stretch of ocean, the technology of that day and age was pretty limited so he's not only 100% right but he's probably even right using today's technology as well. But that's if you're out looking for it.
 * 216.36.6.196 05:10, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * They have Ryan say alot of odd things that dont make sense (but fit the plot they have contrived) '
 * Lighthouse lights are quite powerful and often can be seen as far away as a ship can see it (curvature of the earth - 50 miles?) and raised up to be seen further as well. Some of the most powerful lights ever built were put on lighthouses .....
 * Now that it can be seen ... Whats it doing standing in 1000 meters of water 200+ miles from nowhere.... (built on tiptop of a Sea Mount that just touches the surface - wouldnt THAT be on maps as a navigation hazard??) Very odd looking Lighthouse too. Actually I did think it stupid/odd/illogical that it wasnt torn down soon after 1952 when noone new/supplies mostly stopped coming (if Ryan was as paranoid about secrecy for Rapture as they imply). But that would ruin the 'scene' and the burning plane effects (amazing how 4 years old Jack flew the plane so precisely to CRASH 100 yards away - was he conditioned with jet flying lessons too??? Logic/plot holes you could fly a Zeppelin through...)
 * —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:38, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Rapture Completed
Is there a source for the 'It was officially completed on November 5, 1946' statement? That's the date on the little models you see of Rapture in the game, but those only show a handful of towers. My impression was that the core of the city was completed by that date, and it began accepting inhabitants, but that construction of the bulk of the city took several more years.


 * I see what you mean. If you look at the Rapture Timeline you see that Ryan didn't completely disappear from the surface till sometime around early 1952 (when Lutwidge sent him a complaint about the planned shipments of steel being left to rust). Ryan must have been receiving steel until then, making the completion date more like...late 1951.--Gardimuer 00:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * There are multiple "Rapture: Established 1946" posters around the city (I'm playing BioShock 2). One could very well say Nov. 5.
 * -Murphy


 * Makes me wonder how disjoint the development staff is (on story line details etc...) and if they had anyone checking for discrepencies like this (and IF found it costs time/money to change the 3D asset, so the 'deciders' may have simply let it slide) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:38, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

What's going on with Rapture's population?
Ok, so it's pretty well known that the Rapture civil war happened a couple of years before Jack's arrival in '58, and granted, the city could well have recieved that much damage in such a short space of time that it looks as it did. Come along BioShock 2, ten years later; city still looks aged, Splicers still control the city, new Rumbler Big Daddy !! Now, I was under the impression that, with the exception of the Splicers, the Big Daddies, Little Sisters and Big Sisters and a couple of nut-case normal people (like Sinclair, Gracie etc.) the city was totally devoid of life, and had been since Jack's arrival.

So, what's the deal? Is Rapture only partially destroyed, perhaps with a human population living in unaffected parts that we don't get to explore in the game, or is it totally gone and this new Rumbler is a strange newcomer without origin? 82.31.242.34 17:26, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * -Sofia Lamb was still harvesting ADAM for her project on Eleanor during that ten year timeframe as she rose to power. The Rapture Family is a cult she organized to try and keep the splicers in check. Unfortunately, the splicers still were taking little sisters for their ADAM, the same ADAM Sofia needed. With the help of Gil Alexander she developed the Rumbler, a stronger Big Daddy that was supposed to do a better job of protecting the little sisters and their ADAM. (At least, that's the understanding I've come to.) 216.14.156.51 18:23, July 3, 2010 (UTC)




 * Sofia Lamb's Collective may only be a small part of the City, Prentice Mill talks of his trains being in the old part of the city (which might be the south east edge).    Other post-Ryan Factions probably didnt agree with Sofia's attempted Dictatorship and may have simply cut her off, destroying the physical links to the section she occupies.
 * Lots of people didnt Splice and  Ryan had all but won against Fontaine/Atlas by the end of BS1 (and order was being restored etc...)      We really only have seen a very small part of the whole city and the Splicers we saw (in BS1) were out for the Bounty Ryan offered on Jack (1000 ADAM) and anyone else probably headed the opposite direction with all the shooting and mayhem in Jacks vicinity.  
 * Same likely with BS2 (that narrow path we took through many marginal places) -- people have to eat, so probably congregate more around the farms and  other food sources like Neptunes Bounty, and the saner ones are largely the ones left after ~ 10 years - who avoid violence and damaged areas --- and delusional murdering despots like Sofia Lamb)


 * - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:46, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Concept Map of Rapture
Would you (the community) kindly start work on building a map of Rapture using what information we have? While this may be a herculean task and might involve some guessing, it would definitely be interesting to see, and would be appreciated.

Best effort at creating any sort of map is here.

--108.13.12.176 01:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well that sure hasn't gone far, the only thing mapped out is the Welcome area. I'm highly interested in creating a map of rapture. ideally i would like it to look and work something like Google Maps or something of the sort. be able to overlook the whole thing in one window, zoom, toggle what appears such as "Circus of Values" machines, be able to search for things like these machines or places throughout Rapture such as the "Kashmir Restaurant" potentially even with pictures that pop up in a window when you type in an address. If anyone is also interested in seeing this take form, please comment in this section. This project will need some kind of leader though, as the idea seems very accomplishable with enough people who want to help, however i don't have what it takes to create an interactive map such as this and i would need someone who is much better with computers than i am to be able to put it into action.
 * Winston Hoffner 02:54, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Found a better attempt at the map than previously mentioned, though still from the same person. They have been inactive for some time though on that forum so it doesn't seem likely they'll be helping. This version used Google Earth as a "host" for the map, and was quite interactive as i stated above that i would like to see. However it was only mapped up until Neptunes Bounty, and i already noticed one HUGE error. In this map the Welcome Center is not attached to the Medical Pavillion. If anyone remembers going through that airlock chamber at the end of the welcome level, right after Ryan talked to you on the big TV the door on the other side went directly to the Medical Pavillion. I have NO IDEA how to work things like this into Google Earth, however i am very willing to edit the game maps down to versions such as this so they can be laid out correctly. If anyone does know how to edit things in Earth like that then please edit here, or go to my talk page so this can be discussed in more detail. Thanks, and here is the link to the newly discovered version.Rapture Interactive Map
 * Winston Hoffner 21:09, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was looking for this. I hoped that it would show the outlines of at least half of the actual city (which is still twice that of the playable city seeing as I believe that Bioshock+Bioshock2's playable area are still less than 1/4 of the entire city. -- AzemOcram 09:55, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Project page has been created. Anyone interested in this subject should visit this page. BioShock Wiki:Map Project

Winston Hoffner 16:58, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I noticed a scaling problem with the city. Everything's too big on Google Earth. I mean, WAY too big. For example, according to the line tool, that little room at the end of Welcome to Rapture is the size of two football fields. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 01:43, 2010 February 26 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * Although the scale may not be accurate in its comparison to real things, like that room being the size of 2 football feilds, the maps are scaled to each other so that they can be laid out together. Since the map will be laid out in the middle of the ocean however there wont really be much that will cause a problem. Yes if you try to measure distances it will be inaccurate, but the overall idea was to lay out a map of Rapture... Not the entire world. My primary objective is just to put the map together, and document all of the amazing things inside rapture. So bottom line is that the total scale may be off, but it's still a very usable engine to create an amazing map of rapture on.... If i can get some help that is.
 * Winston Hoffner 18:00, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

A  bit more elaborate map based on the maps from the game. The red circles are actually symbolic at this scaling as the level building structures/complexes we go thru  often sprawl several times as large

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/File:MetroWays2X.jpg

.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 11:24, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Major Plot Holes
I will admit, I believe Bioshock 1 has the best story and back story ever put into a game. The Bioshock Universe is also immense. However I have noticed some pretty significant plot holes from given canon. 1. If Andrew Ryan had successfully implemented the pheromones to Rapture, then shouldn't we see alot less bodies? 2. People have called Splicers nothing but insane, but we see them do anything normal humans would. AND CREATE THE RUMBLER BIG DADDY. 3. This wikia says Splicers killed the "sane" citizens of rapture. No they didn't. They killed anyone who didn't support their cause (Ryan, Atlas) and there are still a few sane citizens left. 4. If Rapture has sorta recovered since Bioshock 1, why no clean up? Wr1ghty 03:40, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Or he used the pheromones to nullify Atlas's Splicers so his own forces could get the upper hand (would also possibly stop them from disrupting everything which threatened survival itself (food/water/air)  Atlas would find himself no longer with an army (other than those who never spliced)

1. Ryan didn't use the pheromones to stop the fighting. He used them to win the war and to get people to fight against Fontaine's forces and not join them. So that would lead to a lot of bodies, since he exacerbated the civil war and the fighting by using pheromones to control people and make them his soldiers.


 * 2. I think I remember from the developer podcasts that one of the devs said monsters that are just inhuman aren't scary. But monsters who still have traces of humanity you can see in them are scary. They purposefully created enemies that at times seem human and normal, despite being mutated and insane. But they aren't normal. After all, normal humans don't murderously attack each other upon sight, nor do they talk to themselves about all the crazy things the splicers do ("there's semen everywhere!", "i wore it for you Father, It's what you like!"), nor are normal humans delusional, thinking they're still living in the past ("Tell the minister he'll just have to wait. It's my daughter's wedding, not his.")

'Read it again  "Strikes me that Fontaine wasn't overly inconvenienced by his own demise...." meaning Fontaine still seems to be running things - the Splicers are still attacking Ryans forces and anyone else who gets in their way...'
 * 3. Only splicers being mind-controlled by Atlas or Fontaine (or I guess who supported their respective causes) killed those who were on the opposite side. But the other killings and attacks weren't politically motivated. Remember when the effects of splicing were just beginning to be noticed and how unspliced people's homes were being attacked? Remember how McDonagh described in Fontaine's Legacy that the attacks by the splicers on the unspliced citizens motivated unspliced citizens to become spliced to "fend off the rabble". It was a matter of survival.


 * Also, there are extremely few sane, unspliced citizens left. Johnny, Fontaine (till the end), Julie, Tenenbaum, Suchong... not many others besides. Ryan ordered all the unspliced citizens to report to his officers - presumably because he wanted them spliced up so they'd also be susceptible to his pheromones (unspliced people weren't susceptible.) Failure to report was considered criminal.

'''Supposition - maybe they were to be armed - crazy splicers are a liability to Order which is what Ryan wanted/needed restored. Getting the remaining people (perhaps a very large number who simply have been keeping their heads down and out of the streets where Atlas's Splicers have been murdering people) organized - like the Home Guard in WW2 where strength of numbers with conventional weapons and guarding of key resources was needed. Unspliced citizens can be trusted.   Ryan would be the one most of the population would bet on for their survival and renewal of the City, not a murderous anarchist like Atlas. (these are post-WW2 people in Rapture not modern day Know-nothings)'''


 * So there were very few people who were left unspliced after that. Either they were working for Ryan or Fontaine in areas that required them to have sanity and ability to think rather than strength and obedience (i.e. not soldiers.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 11:24, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * Hope this helps a bit. There are some significant plot holes in Bioshock, but I don't think the ones you are concerned with are serious issues. Let me know what you think. Clicketyclick 04:12, March 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks alot. I wasn't aware that the sane citizens were forced to "splice" rather than being murdered as I thought. And your point about citizens splicing up to "fend off the rabble" makes sense. But I still have questions over how a bunch of nut jobs could produce the Rumbler. Wr1ghty 11:10, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Another issue that just sprung to mind (sorta related to the Rumbler) is the population. This wikia states it "peaked at several thousand." Two problems, the city looks comparable to Manhattan (though I suppose the buildings are bigger than the parts habitable). And the population of several thousand. Say it's about 5000, you could expect the majority to be killed in the civil war (say 4000). Leaving 1000 left, and we know that Jack goes on a raping spree in the first, and Delta in the second. Maybe the initla population was somehare around 10000? Wr1ghty 11:14, March 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * We don't know for sure how many enemies Jack killed in Bioshock 1. You can revisit previous levels, or walk into previously explored rooms and enemies will constantly spawn, so the population is technially inifnite. Canonically, Jack has no need to revisit old levels, so chances are, he killed a couple of people and moved on. It also depends on the player. Some people feel the need to kill everyone they see, others will put a target dummy and rush through the level. And I personally doubt 4000 people were killed in the Civil War, but that's my opinion.Ant423 14:10, March 20, 2010 (UTC)Ant423


 * Sorry I can't comment about the Rumbler since I haven't played Bioshock 2. All I can say, and I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, is that the Rapture you saw in Bioshock 1 was only supposed to be a small section of the city. It's possible that there are sections of the city you haven't even seen in either game. And the other thing I can comment on is that the scientists who worked for Fontaine and Ryan in creating and manipulating the BDs and LSs didn't seem to get spliced up and don't seem to have been forced to by Fontaine or Ryan. Probably because they needed to be able to think straight. So it was probably unspliced scientists who created the Rumbler.
 * As for Ryan forcing people to get spliced, I missed it on my first playthrough, but there is a poster in one of the apartments in the Fighting McDonagh's Tavern about it. On the upper floor, in the apartment on the very far left (the one with the man cuff-linked to the bed... kinky) if you walk into it and then turn to look at the wall on the right side, you'll see a poster that says that every unspliced citizen must report immediately by order of Ryan. It doesn't make sense to me that he did this to build up an army, because why only take unspliced citizens, since he was going to splice them up anyway. May as well take splicers too. The thing about unspliced people is that they're not subject to mind control. Ryan was hunting down every single unspliced citizen, and it only makes sense he was doing this because he couldn't control them... yet. Clicketyclick 15:25, March 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nothing is made clear what these Pheromones actually do.  Real ones are very simple signals and these one's effect  may simply be to quiet the 'controlled' Splicers down so they would no longer fight for Atlas.    Once that happened Ryans conventional forces (and with support of the majority of sane people in Rapture) would quickly defeat Atlas.   Why would Ryan want to make everyone else in HIS city crazy - thats not conducive to rebuilding/restoring it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 11:51, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * I agree 100% with Clicketyclick. Gil Alexander is one of the scientists who built the Rumbler and he's completely lucid in the Rumbler diary, (He only becomes spliced later on when Sofia asks him to become a Utopian) And that's just one example Ant423 17:24, March 20, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

i have a question if you look hard enough in the game they cover most questions about how they survived under the sea but i cannot figure out this one. Where do they get clean fresh water to drink. I have noticed in the game that they have bottled water and they can get that from the surface but there is a point where rapture was said to be totally reliant on rapture if someone could anserw this it would be nice —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 15:16, 2010 July 7 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * My guess would be that they took all the clean water with them when they went to Rapture. Other's could have been smuggled by Fontain. There are lots of explanations to the water in Rapture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 06:35, 2010 July 28 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

It's pretty simple, they had an ocean water filtration system. Much likes how cities have water treatment plants (Just watch a the Dirty Jobs episode), Rapture more than likely filtered the ocean so no need to go get drinking water from the surface. Cruise ships have something similar. In case of being stranded and for practical use, they have sea water filtering systems so they have endless drinking water. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:03, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * If Rapture can be built, along with all the amazing things therein then I think could build something like this. ::--LOST-The Cartographer 02:04, July 31, 2010 (UTC)




 * Google "Desalinization" the tchnology easily preexisted Rapture (with cheap power like Rapture had its pretty easy to make all the fresh water you would need on an industrial scale)


 * . —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:03, July 31, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Feasibility of building a city like Rapture
Because of all the technological achievements in the past half century, a city superior to Rapture could be built with a smaller budget than Andrew Ryan fictitiously spent. Underwater cities might become the norm as land is taken up becomes less habitable. So to answer the above poster, a city built like rapture might be built in our lifetime. -- AzemOcram 01:34, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

The Fate of Rapture
This is a little theoretical timeline I came up with when I got bored in math class.

1969- A year after BioShock 2. After Sofia lamb destroys Peresephone, the sea floods 40% of Rapture and killing 60% of the Splicer population.

1970- After being pressed by the media and secretly contacted numerous times by the United States Department of Defence, Jack contacts Col. Eddie Gray and tells him all about Rapture. Gray does not believe him at first, but sends a team of 15 men. 3 weeks later, 4 return, telling grizly stories of Big Daddies, Splicers, and ADAM.

1972- The USDD decides to secretly take control of Rapture. Nearly 3,000 men are transported to Rapture. They begin a Splicer extermination campaign. The job is complete a year and a half later at a cost of 400 men killed, 974 injured. Just to make sure all Splicers are dead, they flood Raptures air systems with poison for 2 days straight.

1973-2000- Small groups of soldiers stay in Rapture for some time, reserching and salvaging its vast technology. Some start to splice ADAM they find, although it's forbidian. Many cases of soliders becoming Splicers and killing thier comrades are reported, but always delt with.

2002- Rapture is finaly abandoned. No one remains in Rapture and the city deteriorates even further, large portions flooded or just totaly destroyed.

2007- Rapture is destroyed. A medium sized nuclear device is placed in Rapture Central Control and the city is obliterated. Boats and planes in the area hear the blast, but it goes mostly unnoticed, save for a few tiny articles in 3 Icelandic newspapers and The NY Daily News. Deep sea divers find remants of Rapture scattred around, scientists record large traces of radiation and a large portion of an advertisment for Security Bullseye washes up on an English Beach. Fishermen still bring up chunks of masonry and metal from the area, but the truth behind all this remains known to few. Not much more is heard or seen from Rapture ever again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) Latest revision as of 16:41, 5 March 2011. Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * Article talk pages are not for purely speculatory discussion. Please register to Wikia and compose these into User Blogs like the other users do. That way, we may also provide more specific comments. ~ Ṃᶒɠą§ɔ î é ɳ č ę { tal k }  22:05, March 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * As MegaScience said, ideas like this belong more in blog posts, or on one of the BioShock fanfiction wikis: BioShock Wiki:Links. ~Gardimuer   <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 23:04, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Implications of Bioshock Infinite
Given that Rapture appears to be one of the alternate universes generated by the time loop caused by Booker's rebirth as Comstock, wouldn't the ending of Bioshock Infinite suggest that Rapture (and all the events related to it) was erased from history as a result of Booker/Comstock's death? If it was just meant to be an Easter Egg, it wouldn't have been used as the method of Songbird's destruction- it has to have some more significance than that.128.164.5.164 23:10, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

MAJOR SPOILERS


 * In short, no. Rapture was the equivalent of Columbia. Not Columbia itself. Andrew Ryan was the EQUIVALENT to Comstock/Booker. Different universes. Theoretically, Comstock could still be alive in a universe where Booker didn't allow elizabeth to drown him, there's, no pun intended, an Infinite amount of outcomes... sw201444 (talk)
 * EDITED- sw201444 (talk) 13:31, April 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * To begin, that's a terrible pun because it's not a pun at all; that's likely why it's called Bioshock Infinite, due to the "infinite" number of worlds. In summary, the three "constants" of reality, in the universe, are: a man, a lighthouse, and a city. Rapture is a different city with a different man than Columbia, and with a different lighthouse. Rapture's fate is not tied to Columbia, but rather (and this is my opinion entirely) the existence of both cities and their similarities points to a pattern flowing throughout reality: as Elizabeth said, it always begins the same. A man, a Lighthouse, a City. Key of Destiny (talk) 13:41, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

.


 * I agree with the above for the most part--but this is forgetting the implications by several voxophones that Vigors were created from the idea of Plasmids, and Songbird/Handymen from Big Daddies. Since all the songs A. Fink wrote were songs that will be, not songs that could be (i.e. songs that don't exist in our world), I think it's safe to assume that these ideas came from the same universe as well. 69.85.234.252 13:46, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

'''"the three "constants" of reality, in the universe, are: a man, a lighthouse, and a city." --- Uh, No those are the three constants/anchor points of this teeny tiny infinitely small SET of realities. The joke is on Elizabeth who may run into her twin who is going about between realities UNDOING everything she has tried to do. '''

'''There are still all the rest of the 'Realities'  which are infinitely many - even one with Hello Kitty-like Aliens in powered battle armor running both Rapture AND Columbia,  etc.... --- ANYTHING YOU WANT  - thats the problem with 'infinite' as a plot crutch (and open ended fantasy in general).'''

'''Dont try to link anything of this all together with any logic or reason  -- its gone because they based the games 'universes'  logic on the defrocked virtually UNIVERSALLY rejected multi-verse theory of explaining certain things in a 'quantum' theory system. '''

.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:15, July 31, 2013(UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Description corrections???
"with no social programs whatsoever,"

Not fact. Need to keep assumptions like this from being stated as if they are fact.

Private individuals/organization could still do so (help people in need).

Ryan did not forbid it or he would have shut down Fontaines 'home for the poor' or 'orphanages'

He did not want City moneys (from taxpayers/renters/subsidization)  to be used for it.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:52, July 31, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

"as a gleaming metropolis of massive Art Deco"

"gleaming" ???

Glowing maybe  (things 'gleam' in the sunlight'  -- none reaches rapture which glows in the gloom of the ocean)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:52, July 31, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Manhattan borough ??? A tiny tiny part of it actually and even then these artists views presented is alot bigger than the 20000 the novel talks of  (see these  vvv  pictures of 'manhattan')

http://mdphd.med.nyu.edu/files/directions/images/aerial.jpg

http://www.artfire.com/uploads/product/6/756/85756/3785756/3785756/large/antique_1927_manhattan_island_new_york_usa_black_and_white_aerial_view_rotogravure_a4946972.jpg

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:52, July 31, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

" to escape from the political, social and religious anxieties of a post-World War II world"

and the atomic bomb blowing up the world - if the book is to be taken as Canon

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:52, July 31, 2013 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

The reference is to a " A CITY"   (A city and a man and a lighthouse...   ???)
"As Elizabeth and Booker travel through time and space, it is revealed that the city of Rapture is one of the  'constants'   in every timeline, bound to appear in one form or another in the continuum."

That real quote doesnt  say/name  "Rapture"   and  Columbia is not Rapture. So unless 'constant' has some completely different meaning, this probably should be changed to say  " A City is a constant in every timeline"  and in the current timeline (we see in those scenes) the "City" is Rapture instead of Columbia.

Testxyz (talk) 23:51, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Pre and Post Civil War
These sections seems more of a repetition of what is already described.--Drgyen (talk) 07:04, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Specifc emphasis about 'the people' of Rapture and what happened to them and why.

You could wipe out a quarter of this website if you used 'repetition' as a reason

Testxyz (talk) 07:11, September 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I mean, before this section, the specific information are already mentioned in the "Events in BioShock" and BioShock 2". Also the "Inhabitants" parts is left blank. What's your opinion on this? --Drgyen (talk) 07:21, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Ideology
While there are many major plot holes in the story, the thing that bothers me most is its ideology, and Andrew Ryan's reasons for building it.

His fear of a nueclear war is perfectly understandarbel, but his liberalistic ideology makes no sense to me. He was a russian fugitives, he knew first hand how violently people reacts to oppresion, and he gained his fortune in america the most pure bread capitalistic nation on earth. There are virtually no social securites in america, whit many living in absolute powerty, and the top 1% controllinig about 46% of all the nations wealth. Its capitalism aren't as pure as Rapture, but it is as pure as it can be without fear of a massive revolt.

But it aren't just the limited social reforms that keeps the people of America from revelling. The real reason is democrasy, or at least the illusion of democrasy, depending on who you ask. If the same rules of one head one vote applied in Rapture as it does everywhere else. A man with an opposing ideology to Ryan could have been elected, and changed the deep sea colonies core ideology, it was only because the poor had no power, and no chance to affect these in power that they turned to Frank Fortaine.

That's why even the illusion of democrasy is so great, it releaves tension, so that people can elect a new leader if they are dissatisfied with the old. I think his failure to implement democrasy violated the very core of his ideology "No kings, no gods, only men" but he played god, and acted like a king.

And he didn't want to create a utopia free of oppresion. He just wanted his own kingdom, whom he could impose his own will over as he pleased. Rphb (talk) 17:10, November 28, 2013 (UTC)

Of course the people of Rapture were selected largely for believing the same (or similar) to Andrew Ryan. The Tyranny of the Mob (pure Democracy - which no country has ever gotten overly close to)  is another peril to avoid - Plato himself warned against it 2400 years ago. The whole point is there is no 'Government' really to be elected to to run things and the system is that if there is something that needs to be done, then do it yourself. "Big Government' is another one of the perils Ryan saw poisoning and ruining the Surface World (they simply become a Committee Tyrrany rather than having a Dictator and his cronies.

If Ryan only wanted to impose his own will, then he simply would have had Lamb and Fontaine and others who opposed him  murdered for getting in his way - which he didnt do. Instead he created a place where people could make their own way without others interfering -- that is until the evils of the surface world - greedy murderous criminals and collectivists tried to destroy his creation.

BTW, the poor NEVER have any real power. In places they are made to think they do, but those places are all run by a small clique of clever liars. Places where 'the poor' have the opportunity to make themselves no longer  'poor'  is where they have power.

Testxyz (talk) 15:05, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

You are right, the poor never have any power, and the rich have too much, Plato warned about that too in the republic. A good society needs to be an equal society. A society where no one is truly poor, or extremly rich. If you become rich enogh you no longer need to care about wellbeing of the society, if you become too poor you don't have strenth to care about anyone but yourself.

If I were to create a society like Rapture I would do the ideology much differently. I would have myself crowned king, so people had a symbol to look up to.

I would have a single church under the state that could be controlled, because people need religion, but if it allows many different opinions, is tolerant, an offical part of the state an universal there is no conflixt.

I would also make sure to establish a seperation of powers so people know that they have influence, and that that they could trust the branches of government to be just.

I would apoint an etical council, to advice on laws, to make sure that no unetical acts were performed, like the enslavement of little girls didn't happen. and to prevent more normal things like child labour and worker exploitation.

I would ensure that there would be strong unions and that everyone would be represented, a companies board should have representatives from all stakeholders not just the shareholders.

I would make sure to always maintain a strong efficient policeforce to prevent organized crime, and ensuring the safety of all citizens.

I would build the society upon egalitarian ideals, making sure that no one truly suffered. To do this, I would make sure that there were good public schools, free universities, universal healtcare and more. And while private schools chould be a welcome adition for people with other tastes, the rise of private hospitals would be a sign of denger as they should serve no need.

The core idea is that it should be a society whitout suffering, polution, crime or strife.

The four core ideologies of socialism, liberalism, egalitarianism and enviromentalism should exist in harmony and balance, because that is what a good society should be.

It sould be a soceity of the people, not a privileged elite. But ultimatly and lastly I wouldn't let it be isolated or alone, no I would led it known to the world, so people would be free to come, free to go because the worst thing you can do when people are unhappy is to lock them up. If they after everything you have done for them still don't like how things are, just allow them to leave and find happyness somewhere else.

Rapture was never meant to be other then a dystopia, I am just saying that they could have made a better job at it, becuse only an idiot would belive what Ryan did. Rphb (talk) 23:24, January 2, 2014 (UTC)

---

Maybe you dont realize that you just defined a Utopia even more unlikely than Ryan's. YOU are going to be king ?? What if someone else wants to be and KNOWS they can do a better job than you ? You are going to kill them?, put them in a mental hospital? Simply order them to be quiet?

All the nice things you name might work fine when they are perfect, but name any one of them that was EVER perfect in the real world where there is lazyness, stupidity, greed, arrogance,  ambition. Are you going to get rid of all those things? Kill anyone who even has even the least tendency towards them? And what happens if YOU suddenly dont like the arbitrary rules and regulations that are imposed on you by this new tyranny you've defined?? YOU just go along with it, assuming someone else really knows better than you do?? One this perfect system is in place any dissent wont be tolerated (think soviet Gulags, mass graves)

You are making the same mistake that Lamb made in trying to do away with human nature. You are making the same mistake that proponents of communism have made, expecting that decisions can always be best from the top down and collective decisions are the only way (yet all THEY did was enable people who simply grabbed power using that myth and became more murderous and ruthless than any capitalist ever was).

You also just removed any freedom that the individual has to make the best decisions for themselves. The whole idea of Ryans libertarianism is its simplicity (cut out the middleman, people make decisions for themselves and others are disempowered from frocing others). The problems with power in our world is that collectivists/socialists for their own reasons have been stealing the freedoms of individuals to act for themselves. They consolidate power so that corruption (rich people  are given a game they can play) is much simpler to achieve. Big government rules from afar with petty bureauctrats making lazy stupid ignorant decisions to run your life - one size fits all. You are just creating what we already have except 10 times worse.

Your system is counting on everything being perfect and people being perfect and everything being perfect -- it simply doesnt exist in the real world.

So the answer is NOT to impose an even bigger set of controls on people, but to free them from what we already have, and let THEM flexibly, adroitly decide for THEMSELVES - THAT is actually what Ryan was after.

Testxyz (talk) 08:17, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

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Exposed
What happens when Rapture was exposed to the goverment?

-

Ever hear of something called 'The Cold War' ?

It might not be that the US government wants to take Rapture for themselves (the technology probably would be a reason) but to keep it from falling into the hands of the other side. Other governments would possibly also want it as might various criminal groups and even certain industrialists who could see the ADAM thing as their future super-fortune. There is very good reason why Andrew Ryan doesnt want contact with the surface which will bring the Surface 'parasites' to Rapture.

You mean it because of Plasmids and Gene Tonics?,and soon leading the US rule the whole World?