Talk:Frank Fontaine

Occupation
Didn't it say in the game that Fontaine started out in the Irish Mob? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 04:56, 2007 November 4 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * If you're positive, why not edit it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 00:55, 2007 December 28 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Image
Out of curiosity, how did you procure the photo of Normal Form Fontaine? Did you catch up with him in Point Prometheus? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 21:46, 2008 February 27 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * yeah i was wondering myslef how did someone get fontains human form? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 23:27, 2008 March 22 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * On the PC version of Bioshock you can "ghost" hack, meaning that you can enter areas or view scenes from different angles that you can't do on the XBox 360. The reason Fontaine/Atlas looks spliced at Point Prometheus is because the designers were lazy and used a splicer model for him instead. A close up of Tennenbaum using this method also reveals that a splicer model was used for her.
 * Wasn't it Suchong that called Tennenbaum a "diamond in the rough?". Fontaine only ever refers to her as the "Kraut." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 11:48, 2008 July 22 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Character inspiration
Ken Levine says that Frank Fontaine was also partly inspired by the "Keyser Soze" character in the film, The Usual Suspects. (I'll try and find the interview link)Would this be interesting enough to be entered in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 12:29, 2008 July 22 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Fontaine's 'Atlas' Disguise
The main article suggests that Fontaine uses ADAM to fashion his appearance into that of the handsome Atlas, which can't be right. Upon revealing himself to you following the death of Ryan, Fontaine brags about how he impersonated a Chinaman for a prolonged period, and some of the diaries imply he is able to change elements of his disguise at the drop of a hat (like his voice in the Hestia diary featuring both him and Atlas). All of this does not suggest the use of ADAM.

It isn't until much later in the game that Fontaine first uses ADAM, because he actually tells us that he's never used it before, but actually enjoys the feeling of doing so, and wants more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 20:28, 2009 March 24 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * There is never a full explanation of how Fontaine changed his appearance to that of the proletariat hero. It could be a result of simple cosmetic surgery (perhaps Steinnman before he had gone mad) without the use of ADAM. Most people in Rapture were far too afraid to speak out against Fontaine, so it would of been easy for him to have it done secretively. They say that the only thing cosmetic surgery can't really change is your eyes, which makes sense seeing as how the only resemblance of Fontaine in Atlas is the eyes.The lack of Atlas and Fontaine character models makes it difficult to discern if he left the disguise behind by the time Jack sees him in Point Prometheus or his face permanently stuck as Atlas', as the recycled "waders" splicer skin looks like neither the Irish fisherman or the Bronx gangster. As for the audio diary, Fontaine was clearly able to change back to his normal voice at the drop of a hat (as seen in Fontaine's reveal). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 01:22, 2009 April 10 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * How did he lift the big statue and throw it out of the way when you first see him in Point Prometheus if he never took ADAM before? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 23:00, 2009 May 9 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

 He threw the statue as he had just started splicing at that point of the game58.161.200.52 07:49, April 8, 2011 (UTC) 

I don't think he was really telling the truth when he claimed not to have used ADAM before, or this might be a developer oversight. Some hints pointing to the contrary might be the corpse of Diane McClintock, who was apparently thrown onto the desk with force enough to break it, indicating that Fontaine could have some level of superhuman strength before. Also the fact that he faked his death seems unlikely without any ADAM enhancements, since it was reported that he was shot, not blown apart by explosives or burnt, and I don't think Sullivan wouldn't have him checked for vitals. There was no information about his body not being found, either. Besides, Fontaine shows ADAM-induced deformities which possibly take some time to show, considering the fact that ADAM was around before 1952 but only several years later its bad side-effects became apparent. Also in the article about Andrew Ryan, it is written that Ryan probably wasn't an ADAM user or simply did not use enough to be addicted to it, this could be the case with Fontaine too, e.g. using ADAM mainly to maintain his con trick but only later increasing doses to achieve superb abilities. Bill Lee 07:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * In a proving grounds message, Fontaine clearly states:


 * "Don't know what I was thinkin'. Never spliced up once the whole time I was down here in this aquarium. Figured it was bad to mix business with pleasure, but whooo! Forget all the nose-candy and floor polish I been wastin' time with! This stuff is the mother's milk!"


 * According to that statement, he NEVER consumed ADAM until that point. If he had already spliced up in the past, he wouldn't feel the "rush" that he felt in proving grounds or claim that he never spliced. Ant423 02:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * The novel said that Steinman had a hand in changing his apperance and also that of one of his thugs to be made to look as he had --  to be killed in the big shootout where Fontaine was supposed to have been killed by Ryan constables.

Misanthropic?
I think Fontaine was not entirely misanthropic. What about some of his radio messages to Jack? 'You were the closest thing I ever had to a son,and that's why this hurts...'Leea 15:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Defeating him with the wrench
In the article it says that you can defeat him with a wrench. I know from personal experience,that it simply cannot be done. The only way you could possibly do it is if you get him stuck in between the computers on the lower pathway by the left window. From there it seems that he is unable to reach you and you can whack away at Fontaine as much as you like.On a diferent note,has anyone noticed that if you hit Fontaine with a wrench,it doesn't make the usual sound? Sparks fly,and there's a dull "thud" sound,like you hit a couch.Leea 12:50, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * It can be done more easily than you might think, even on hard. I speak from personal experience, as I have beaten the game using only a Wrench whenever possible, on hard. For Fontaine, I used both Wrench Jockey tonics, Wrench Lurker tonics, Armored Shell 2, Frozen Field 2, SportBoost tonics, and Bloodlust. Distract him and everyone else that comes with Target Dummy, Electro Bolt him, and whack him. Victory.
 * BlueIsSupreme 22:12, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

The ADAM-machine
The machine that Fontaine uses in the last level greatly resembles the two/three/four that's in Point Prometheus, most surely used to create Big Daddies. Is it possible that Big Daddies look like, or at least greatly resembles to Fontaines final forms beneath the diving suit. If so, should it be mentioned in some kind of trivia? --FifthDisciple 16:16, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * That is a really interesting idea. It is mostly speculation though, since we don't have any hard evidence, so I don't think it should be put in the main article. --Gardimuer 21:25, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Check out the pics of the rumbler BD from Bioshock 2. You can see part of its torso as well as its left arm as they are not covered by armor. --Ant423 18:05, December 28, 2009 (UTC)Ant423

Radio Messages
Any way to assemble a list of the radio messages he sends to Jack under a new section of the article? --24.192.86.139 02:56, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * A nice idea... but there are so many radio messages that it would take practically an entire page length just to list them. We could add a link to the radio messages page... ~Gardimuer  { ʈalk } 06:09, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Battle Strategy
Why is there a battle strategy written down here? Isn't there already one in Fontaine (Level)??? Seems kinda redundant to do something like that. Plus, this strategy is badly written; The grammar is poor and it uses dumb words like BAM!.--Ant423 18:02, December 28, 2009 (UTC)Ant423

Edit: Well, looks like someone cleaned up the strategy a bit. I still think it's redundant, but at least it's written better. Ant423 21:55, January 29, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

Bioshock 2
I only just started the game (No spoilers please) so I don't know the full story, but are there any audio diaries by Frank Fontaine in the game? If so, should we put his updated radio picture on this page? --Ant423 01:14, February 11, 2010 (UTC)Ant423


 * Sure, same with Andrew Ryan.
 * BlueIsSupreme 01:26, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops...Looks like Fontaine's radio picture is the same in Bioshock 2. Nevermind. Ant423 03:29, February 20, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

Voice Acting
According to Jordan Thomas in the forums:

''Just to clarify. In the shipping game, both Atlas and Fontaine were voiced by Karl Hanover. I can't 100 percent confirm that every Fontaine line in Bio1 was Karl, but the bulk of the shipping lines were, and he absolutely does both in Bio2.''

Should both actors be listed on both pages? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 23:25, 19 February 2010. Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * A good way to gauge what should be done is to look at the manuals of both games. If only the single actor is credited, than we should follow suit.
 * BlueIsSupreme 22:12, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * According to the interview with Greg Baldwin on The Fukerton Greg Baldwin did all the voice acting for Fontaine (not Atlas) in the first BioShock. I suggest we credit both voice actors for Fontaine on this page, since they are different in each game, possibly saying "Greg Baldwin (BioShock), Karl Hanover (BioShock 2)" On the Atlas page only Karl Hanover needs to be credited. ~Gardimuer    { ʈalk } 23:17, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought something was up with Fontaine's voice in Bioshock 2, even though overall, I think Hanover did a pretty good job. It's not uncommon for voice actors to change between games so it's a good idea to list both. Ant423 23:32, February 25, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

My name is Karl Hanover and I voiced both Atlas and Fontaine in both Bioshock games. Val00


 * BULL SHIT! GeneralOwnage55 The Message Box 12:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * A new interview with Karl Hanover seems to confirm that Karl Hanover did both voices in the first game
 * http://thegamingliberty.com/index.php/2010/11/06/bioshocks-atlas-speaks-an-interview-with-karl-hanover/
 * Here is the quote from said article:
 * TGL: Do you think you impressed Levine so much that you made him change his outlook on Atlas from what original voice actor Greg Baldwin did?
 * KH: Here’s the thing, I never met Greg. So ultimately they had recorded it and it sounds great but they wanted to go in a different direction. So my assumption is that they were referring to Greg.
 * Venom Wolf 17:36, February 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for finding that interview. It's pretty cool to read about the process of making Fontaine/Atlas. I changed the infobox in the article to say Hanover was VA in BioShock too. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 20:37, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Family?
Just before fighting Fontaine in BioShock, he makes a comment to Jack about him being the closest thing he's ever had to a son. Therefore, the little boy on the picture in his office must be Fontaine when he was younger. With this information, should we change the information in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 06:02, 2010 February 25 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

Why did Fontaine say he would like a family of his own one day? But in Bioshock 2 you can see a picture of Fontaine with his wife and child in his office.Luke Kiernan 21:33, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

What?
"Either that, or the portrait is that of Fontaine, Tenenbaum and Jack Ryan, given that Jack was, in Fontaine's words, 'the closest thing I ever had to a son'."

I'm sorry, but the woman does not look like Tenembaum at all, and the man, although he resembles Fontaine, also looks quite different. Furthermore, why would Fontaine, Tenembaum and Jack pose together for a portrait as if they were a family? It doesn't make sense. Unless someone can confirm the above statement, then it should be removed from the article. Ant423 19:00, February 26, 2010 (UTC)Ant423


 * About the picture - some people on the forums have mentioned that they're wearing 1920's clothing, not 1950's although this is pretty much unconfirmed. Venom Wolf 23:37, February 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * My apologies for not noticing the debate here before. However, I think it's entirely possible that it is of Fontaine, Tenenbaum and Jack. Nothing about Fontaine's character suggests that he's someone who'd hold his family near and dear to his heart (let alone his office). Yet, he'd certainly want a testament to one of his greatest achievements, creating Jack. Fontaine and Tenenbaum had some sort of relationship, even "romantic" if the Paparazzi's words can be believed. In some twisted way, Fontaine could've considered Tenenbaum the mother of his creation. The three would not have to sit down for a portrait. Photographs of Fontaine and Tenenbaum would've been in supply and if Fontaine commissioned the portait, he'd be available to pose himself. Again, maybe it's too much of a presumption on my part and if it is, feel free to delete it from the article. I just feel that, given the character of Fontaine, it's a possibility to be considered. Rapture-Stingers-QB 20:38, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if you compare the woman to Tenenbaum's audio diary and "Rapture's Best and Brightest 1952" poster they look nothing alike. Also Fontaine says he figured it would be bad to "mix business with pleasure" so I thought the Paparazzi's diary had misinterpreted Tenenbaum's visits to his house to be romantic, when she was really protesting about the Little Sisters. I just find it hard to believe that Fontaine would have evidence of his secret weapon on the office wall. Venom Wolf 17:24, April 4, 2010 (UT


 * The kid in the picture is too old to be Jack, if that were him he would have remembered Rapture. I think (although not likely) that the kid might be Fontaine with his parents. He told Jack that " I really got you with that wife and child bit...Maybe some day I'll get a real family, they play well with the suckers." meaning that he didn't have a wife and child. MarcoDelMarco 03:50, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is also a diary from Suchong that states when Jack was one years old - he looked 19. When Frank sent him to the surface he was two years old and must have still looked a lot older. Venom Wolf 22:46, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do believe Fontaine and Tenenbaum did have some sort of fling, but it didn't last too long. It certainly can't be Jack and Tenenbaum in that portrait. Mr Bio Shock 21:08, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * That picture is of Fontaine as a child and his parents
 * I do believe Fontaine and Tenenbaum did have some sort of fling, but it didn't last too long. It certainly can't be Jack and Tenenbaum in that portrait. Mr Bio Shock 21:08, March 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * That picture is of Fontaine as a child and his parents
 * That picture is of Fontaine as a child and his parents

Photo's from Bioshock 2
Hey doe's anyone have the portraits that hung in Fontaine's office?. The ones that said Liar! if you get it please send it to me

Thank you,

Ð.ŔŸÅŅ 03:37, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can find them online at the Rapture Archives: http://www.rapturearchives.com/museum-paintings.php Someone has already uploaded them to the wiki. If you want to use them for something you can find them here: Category:Fontaine Futuristics Images ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 05:48, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thankyou Gardimuer We can always count on you!!
 * Ð.ŔŸÅŅ 15:35, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

resemblance
In his splicer form he slighty looks like "Ed Gein" in a way. D.R. fan 47 Does anyone agree with that?

Powers and Abilities?
I think this page should have a section that at least explains his powers and abilities since no other Splicer has a combat type like his. I mean really no other enemy in the game is seen using electro bolt except for this guy and the stratagy and tactics section does not explain any of his attacks at all. Ohshizim15 8/30/2010 11:17AM


 * I think it's already covered in the Endgame level walkthrough. --Willbachbakal 16:59, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just checked and there is no section on that page explaining his powers and abilities either it only says that he simply has three forms and thats it. Not to be rude or anything but thats close to NOTHING! One of these pages needs a section exp;aining his powers and abilities.--Ohshizim15 8/30/2010 3:32PM

Main image
In the main image of the article, fontaines' image is of his Splicer form. Since that form is not his "actual" character model, (just recycled from other splicers) I think it should be put an image of his boss form, because it is "actual" model and has less "errors" than the other.

Sorry for any english spelling error. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 20:37, 2010 December 22 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * We use the picture that would be less spoilerific and that best represents who he is/was as a person throughout the majority of the game, not just the end. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 01:59, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok then, thanks.Sgt.Robin 19:30, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Spliced Fontaine is a head taller than a Bouncer Big Daddy
I saw this Gmod pic in Imageshack of Fontaine fighting a Bouncer.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8092/d1trainstation050000.jpg

As you can see, not only is Fontaine taller than the Bouncer, but if both were standing straight, the top of the Bouncer's head would only reach to the bottom of Fontaine's neck. Would the comparison work for the Trivia?Evans0305 04:12, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Much better battle strategy
I only tried this on Medium difficulty. I found that Fontaine is really easy to beat if you just use the crossbow. Using the rapid-fire trick helps a lot too (which btw can also be done with the shotgun before getting the rate-of-fire upgrade, making the upgrade kind of useless, just thought you'd like to add that to the relevent page). You can beat each form in about 8 shots on Medium difficulty. And as long as you have a lot of money, then health and ammo isn't a problem. If the enemies bots and Splicers are annoying, use a Target Dummy. Also, I was able to catch Fontaine's projectiles (the fire, ice, and lightning balls) and throw them back at him. I even beat his Fire form just by using his fireballs the first time I ever fought him, so I don't understand why the battle strategy says you can't catch them. 173.68.57.180 08:58, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Fontaine is not Fontaine
I'm not sure if youse guys consider the book that was released in July to be canon, but if so, Frank Fontaine is actually Frank Gorland. He stole his identity early on in the book. Everything else about him seems to match up in though. Bearded Hoplite 22:57, August 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * His name wasn't Frank Gorland either, It said only Reggie new his real last name. Gorland was just the name he used before he killed and stole Frank Fontaines Identity. But are we considering the book as canon? IPoopHuge 21:07, August 8, 2011 (UTC) IPoopHuge


 * Dont see why the book cant be considered canon, it seems to fit perfectly well with the Bioshock Universe. And didnt they work closly with 2K when writing it? (CallumFreeman 21:09, August 8, 2011 (UTC))


 * At least Levine himself said the book isn't really canon. See: here The Sanity Assassin 21:33, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * The short answer is no, we aren't considering book info canon on the wiki. However, we may still include info from the book in articles as long as it is tagged as such. See the forum topic about this. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 23:26, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a bit weird, the creator of the damn series not reading the offically produced prequel novel. You think he woulda went through it to make sure John Shirley got his stuff right. Bearded Hoplite 03:33, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * May be in a quarter of BioShock Infinite's completion, he'll look it over. Until then, his mind is still consentrated on finishing Columbia. Evans0305 04:35, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sadly that doesn't really change anything, does it. Plotholes, irregularities with the canon etc. are already written and read by a lot of fans. Probably hard to get those mistakes out of people's minds again. -- The Sanity Assassin 17:55, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * May be in a quarter of BioShock Infinite's completion, he'll look it over. Until then, his mind is still consentrated on finishing Columbia. Evans0305 04:35, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sadly that doesn't really change anything, does it. Plotholes, irregularities with the canon etc. are already written and read by a lot of fans. Probably hard to get those mistakes out of people's minds again. -- The Sanity Assassin 17:55, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I am actually glad to see someone else is able to notice how badly John Shirley f***ed with the canon. I think it was a bit(cough) overkill to make Frank Fontaine... well, NOT Frank Fontaine. On top of annoyances and blatant rape of the canonical storytelling, the book was a huge disappointment. :( -- 69.76.222.152 21:53, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fontaine/Atlas speaks of how many scams he has done in his career and how many different identities (the spiel in Rapture Control after you turn over the control key to him).
 * Thus 'Fontaine is VERY LIKELY NOT his real name as Ryan might have been able to trace him before he ever even allowed to come to Rapture.


 * As far as Im concerned, the book IS Canon and so 'no I havent read it'  really doesnt mean much one way or the other.



*Not* a reference to the Fountainhead?
According to the Trivia section: "Ken Levine<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-3">|[4] stated at the 2008 GDC that Fontaine's name is not a reference to the Fountainhead." Can we get an actual word for word quote of what he said? Because, frankly, that's extremely hard to swallow. Atlas Shrugged and The Fontainhead are easily Rand's two most well known books. One Bioshock character has two identities, one named Atlas and the other named Fontaine, which means "fountain"... and it's merely a coincidence? That's very, very hard to believe. Definitely need to know exactly what Ken Levine supposedly said.

So far I've been able to trace it back to this article at Destructoid, but it's the author's words, not Levine's: http://www.destructoid.com/gdc-08-are-games-essentially-superficial--71659.phtml Druffmaul 18:55, April 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice work tracking down that source! I'll go ahead and remove that bit of trivia from the article since it appears to be unfounded. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 22:41, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Removed trivia

 * The following trivia notes were removed from the article because they have not been confirmed as intentional by the game developers. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 21:02, June 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Frank Fontaine came to Rapture with little or nothing, and built an empire by his own wits, a rags-to-riches story in the mold of Andrew Carnegie. Later on he becomes corrupted in his struggle for power. He also exposes Andrew Ryan to be, at his core, a tyrant: the very type of "God or King" which the red banner at Rapture's entrance claimed had no place there, winning considerable popular support by pointing out Ryan's hypocrisy.
 * The FreshHair commercial from the public address announcements in Rapture seems to be a dig at Fontaine. The character complaining about being bald is called Frank, and he has a fear of splicing; Fontaine tells Jack in a radio message that he had not spliced previously because he "figured it was bad to mix business with pleasure."
 * Fontaine's boss form is reminiscent of an Art Deco sculpture, such as Lee Lawrie's statue of Atlas at the Rockefeller Center. This form also makes him resemble the being on the cover of Ayn Rand's novel, Atlas Shrugged.

"After the Civil War, he became the governor of Apollo Square. "

governor ?? wrong word - that word conveys some kind of official standing

gang boss or rebel leader (and by the time we show up in BS1, he even is hardly even that and is pretty much 'on the run' from Ryan)

Also officially Fontaine was dead, so mentioning that he was there in Apollo Square in his faked persona of 'Atlas' would make things clearer

---

Why does Frank look different in his portrait than in reality?
Sorry if this is a noob-y question, but I was looking to know.

Probably because he received plastic surgery in order to transform himself into Atlas. This is kind of explained in-game. Key of Destiny (talk) 14:17, August 15, 2013 (UTC)