Talk:Yi Suchong

Chinese or Korean
while the idea that Suchong may be Korean is intriguing, there is one major issue with it:

He describes the Japanese attacking and slaughtering his city.

Now, the Japanese were entirely capable of being brutal to the Koreans, but an all out assault and massacre? That meshes far better given their behavior in China.

By WWII, Korea had been a part of the Japanese Empire for roughly thirty years, and was considered a part and parcel of a "Greater Japan." The Imperial regime certainly persued ugly policies of Nipponization and other "charming" activities, but they weren't doing much on such a scale (for the same reason, the possibility that he is Manchurian is unlikely: the Japanese were cruel taskmasters, but they didn't raze entire cities wholesale in 1931, when they walked into Manchuria)

The alternative is that, somehow, Suchong described the 1894/95 Conquest of Korea from the Qing/Manchu Chinese Empire, where the Japanese did actually assault Korea. However, since Suchong would have to have been grown up by that point (let's say 18 years minimum), he would have to be around, oh, 60-70 years old by the time of his death. Slim possiblity? Yes, but not a great one.

That, and the fact remains that Japan's conduct in 1894 wasn't nearly as bad as it would be after the war or in China, and we have a wrap.

Yes, the idea of him being a collaborator hired by the US after the war is intriguing, but the fact remains that there are countless ways he could have escaped from a similar situation in China, not the least amongst them being the fact that he simply sold the Japanese out (if, indeed, he was more involved with them than a one-time opium sale/givaway to save his neck) to the KMT or CCP as the war turned.

Also, if he happends to be Korean, with the same Chinese caratrer, the Roman-letter spelling of his name 易蘇崇 would be Ri Seojong, but Yi Suchong is the Chinese way of Roman-letter spelling so it is far more likely for the reasons I have stated that he is Chinese. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 09:20, 2009 May 17. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * Likely he is chinese, but merely pointing out since I like to, definatly he was living in china during the attack. It is possible though he was korean, or half korean though. Perhaps his father was korean and his mother chinese. I do not know if suchong is a korean name, but it sounds possible from what I do know. Yi is a chinese name though, but Korea was heavily influenced by china for a extremely long time. That also aids the possibility he was atleast a bit korean, since I would bet many chinese born citizens could be korean desendants. Miumaru 01:14, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * In Bioshock: Rapture, Ryan states, "The hardest one to get at was this quite peculiar but brilliant fellow, name of Suchong--he was stuck in Korea during the Japanese occupation". The book notes that it is 1946 when he said this. I believe Suchong also went missing during that year. I simply have the feeling the developers didn't think much about his nationality until after the fact.Grassrunnerdaugher 17:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just because it's said in the novel doesn't mean it's completely right, given the amount of errors in it. There are also, as far as I know at least two historical mistakes in it, one of them pretty large. Also, in SitS there was this newspaper article written in Chinese. I'm not sure how possible it is that a Chinese paper would write about a missing Korean scientist at that time. The Sanity Assassin 00:54, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I removed the Naking and birth date info from the article since we don't have any solid facts to base it on. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 04:22, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is my belief that he was intended to be such a minor character that the writers didn't make him any particular nationality.Grassrunnerdaugher 04:37, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I doubt that is the case. Ken Levine (creative director of BioShock) mentioned on his twitter account that he once came up with an entire back story for Brigid Tenenbaum, including her place of birth, etc. Compared to other characters in BioShock, Suchong is relatively major, so I think it is likely that he also had a developed backstory that was never revealed in the game. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 17:34, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to cross out his identity as a Korean unless his name 易蘇崇 is some kind of an alias. At first I thought his name could be Korean since the surname Lee, "이" in Korean, is sometimes romanized as Yi. However, Korean names also use Chinese characters and the Korean surname "Yi" uses the Chinese character "李" not "易". The Chinese character "易" is pronounced as Yi in Chinese, but it would be prounced as Yuhk in Korean. If his true name was printed on this newspaper article, the possibility of him actually being a Korean but having had his name romanized using Chinese pronunciation can be crossed out too. This is because "易" isn't even a surname in Korea. Munchinghippo 16:07, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Big Daddy Prime's First Kill
There is a very high possibility that Yi Suchong was killed by none other than the very first Big Daddy. First of all, note the fact that the drill was still in his body meaning that it was detachable and that the Big Daddy wasn't strong enough to simply rip it out of the table. There is only one Big Daddy that fit these characteristics.

Now of course there's the argument "well the Big Daddy defended the Little Sister meaning that the mental condition experiment was a success and that the prototype doesn't have that conditioning." But what if it wasn't a success? What if the Big Daddy simply chose to kill him. What if it honestly cared about the Little Sister and became sick and tired of Suchong's abusive behavior.

Then of course there is the fact that Suchong's body was still there. Suchong died during the late developement stages of the Big Daddies, before Rapture fully erupted into civil war. And yet nobody bothered to remove his body... What if Tenenbaum witnessed the whole scene and rather than report Suchong's death to Ryan, she simply finished the mind control batch for him and put the big daddy into hibernation for safe keeping?

Consider it food for thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 03:48, 15 September 2009. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * Very good points. I assumed the same thing. I always figured the reason Delta was locked up in hibernation was because of what he had done to Suchong. Delta's sanity and free will may be the reason why the protection bond didn't work initially. --Ant423 05:57, January 2, 2010 (UTC)Ant423


 * There's one flaw with that. the fact that the drill is ment for a bouncer. meaning he wasn't killed by delta. it was most likely done by a Bouncer. GeneralOwnage55 20:24, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean anything. Maybe the drill was meant for a bouncer, but it happened to be in the room and Delta knew how to operate it. Also, the fact that the drill was DETACHED means that it is not a bouncer drill but the hand held drill the Delta uses. Ant423 21:20, January 13, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

ive actualy jumped on the drill and theres mesh where deltas hand would go. meaning it came from a bouncer or one of the other prototype big daddies if they lived.. --GeneralOwnage55


 * Suchong was not killed by delta. delta was created after his death by alexander. --Sgt. j-man


 * The model file used for the drill is irrelevant because the Delta character did not exist when the first game was made so the drill (which would have to be redesigned to suit handheld use, the first person view and the addition of upgrades) didn't either.
 * There is an Audio Diary which states the Alpha Series were the Big Daddies in operation when Suchong was killed, given that Suchong was surprised to be attacked I think it's fair to say the killer Big Daddy must have been the first successful bond and we know that first bond was Delta (this is also stated in the same Audio Diary). Any scenario in which Suchong could be killed by a different Big Daddy is clutching at straws, and if it wasn't Delta they wouldn't have bothered with this audio diary.
 * The Audio Diary is "The Pair Bond Mechanism" by Gil Alexander and can be found in Siren Alley.
 * "The pair bond is a success! If somehow an Alpha Series wanders too far from his Little Sister, our physical fail safe kicks in: a chemical trigger than induces coma. It is a symbiotic relationship, enforced by the girl's pheremone signature. The first successful candidate was... Delta I believe. It is unfortunate that poor Dr Suchong will not be here to raise a glass."
 * The link is almost certainly retroactive as I doubt even the idea of Delta existed when the first game was made, but it's there in the second game.
 * DazJW 21:11, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * You are assuming. You are going "Well, if I assume this and that, I can say he did it without ANYONE actually saying any facts that could even give it POSSIBILITY!" Another audio diary you apparently missed talks about Suchongs death being a tragedy, but the project moves on with Gil. Seems like they were still developing them when he died. Just because a Big Daddy protected a Little Sister doesn't mean they had a bond. It could have just been a reaction they had been working on. ~Ṃ ᶒ ɠ ą § ɔ î é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 21:46, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

If it reacted then there was obviously a bond present. In Rapture as portrayed in the first game there's no Delta or Alpha Series and there are no Big Daddies with any emotions. By the lore of the first game all Big Daddies had been Bouncers or Rosies so the one in that diary was a Bouncer acting because of the bond (the drill was just left to communicate exactly how Suchong was killed and because it looked cool). We now have this Bioshock 2 diary which says they were working on the Alpha Series bond at the time of Suchong's death and the first one with a successful bond was Delta. There's another releveant diary - "Improving on Suchong's Work" - which shows Gil was responsible for adding the lethal component to the bond already created by Suchong.

Suchong was killed by the first bonded Big Daddy. The first bonded Big Daddy was Delta. DazJW 09:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * There are three audio diaries in the game which are pretty much picked up in the chronological order they were recorded:


 * 1) Improving on Suchong's Work - This was recorded after the first semi-successful pair bond; the one in which Suchong died. However, it was not an Alpha Series bond because it was not an "unbreakable physiological bond." The Big Daddy that killed Suchong was a failed bond; Gil speaks of it in very negative terms, saying the Big Daddy pretty much ignores the girl except when she is threatened. This problem was what started his idea for making a stronger bond between the pairs.
 * 2) A Father's Love - This audio diary was recorded after the Alpha Series was begun, but before the the "unbreakable physiological bond" was first engineered. In it Alexander first comes up with the idea for the special Alpha Series bond: "Something physical... possibly even lethal...Bonded pairs... connected by a love that kills."
 * 3) The Pair Bond Mechanism - Finally, in this diary Gil talks about Delta's bond; Delta was the first successful bond that involved the "chemical trigger that induces coma." Thus the first successful Alpha bond; not the semi-successful bond that caused Suchong's accidental death. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer <font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622> <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait">  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 17:21, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement with Gardimuer on this one. As an avid student of the Bioshock canon, I cannot accept that Delta killed Suchong. Alpha series came after Suchong's
 * death, Alphas were Gil's creations, improving on Suchong's failed work. To think that Delta did such a thing is just premature wishful thinking. Kumasaki 11:57, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Big Daddy that killed Suchong was one of the earlier production models, which had launchable drills for easier navigation. This made the drill unstable, and more easily removed. This is why the drill detached itself when the Big Daddy killed Suchong. All of this was shown and explained in Burial At Sea - Episode 2, in the chalkboard diagrams.

Blood
Is there an explanation as to why his picture is the only one splattered with blood? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 22:57, 2009 December 23. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * It could be because he has the only audio diary that takes place during his death. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 02:01, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Charity work
it is worth mentioning that Suchong's free clinic may be a front for his experiments, I mean you would expect him to be experimenting on the protection bond in a lab, not a back room of his own clinic.Malcont 11:40, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

One thing
Seems strange that no one cared at all to pick up Suchong's corpse or even remove the drill after his grisly death, Sullivan found him, yet he did nothing, he didn't even got a proper funeral or whatever. He was one of the most high-profiled citizens of Rapture yet he was just left there, rotting. (KingShodo 03:17, February 27, 2010 (UTC))


 * If someone had tidied up you would have had the impressive scene to stumble upon. Not everything is an in-story decision. DazJW 11:13, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the plain danger of the area at the time. To go out of their way to clean up in such an environment could leave themselves exposed to Splicer attack and such. Anyway, there's no point, since Suchong's office was his and no one would be managing it after his death. Might as well leave him there, it won't make a difference. ~<span title="Never harmed a kitten... Just cats!" style="cursor:crosshair"><span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ <font color="#009900">ᶒ <font color="#00aa00">ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 14:50, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Suchong's year of death
Alexander said Suchong was dead when Delta was succesfully bond to his Little Sister : "The pair bond is a success [...] The first successful candidate was... Delta I believe. It is unfortunate that poor Dr Suchong will not be here to raise a glass'"'. But if Delta was protecting Eleanor in 1958 as we can see in Bioshock 2's opening cinematic, then Suchong must have died in 1958 or before, and not in 1959 when Delta was dead.

Pauolo 17:17, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * We know Suchong was working for Ryan following Fontaine's 'death' in September '58 and that he was dead by the time Delta was created some time before he was out on New Years Eve '58 patroling with Eleanor. This gives us a window of only a few months in which Suchong likely died. We can only assume his suggestion to Ryan regarding mind control plasmids was taken up many months after his death (Ryan originally expressed disgust at this idea, maybe he took some time to come round to it). Now there's only the matter of why Suchong's body was left to rot in his clinic for over a year... Maybe Apollo Square was considered too dangerous (as a stronghold of Atlas supporters) for it to be worth retrieving Suchong's body even before the New Years Eve attacks that kicked off the civil war properly?
 * Breanainn 20:21 March 15 2010

Protecting Little Ones

Transcript: ''War a terrible thing. Japanese kill every man in my city, except for Suchong. Suchong have opium. Very good opium. This war, terrible thing, too, but not for Suchong. Everyone scared now. Everyone need ADAM. More than Little Sisters can make. Good news is '''war makes lots of corpses. '''Suchong knows way to recycle ADAM from corpse. But can't send Little Sister out to street unprotected. Suchong must think on this.''

Doesnt sound like 1958. More like after the Civil War is well started.


 * Maybe, conflict between Atlas and Ryan already started before 1959 New Year Eve attack. Before 1959, Atlas would have gathered his flock for uprising and confidentially spread his identity. And Ryan would have handled with Fontaine's legacy. Of course, minor skirmishs would have followed. It's like silent war or Cold war. What I mean is people already knew new conflict, but most of the people didn't care. Only few people like Suchong would have cared, got it?


 * Pawn of Atlas (talk) 15:29, March 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * Various verbage doesnt sound like it was anything major  :
 * Fontaine's Legacy


 * Sullivan - "It's probably just a coincidence, but I'll be damned if anyone had ever heard of this Atlas guy before Fontaine went tits up."
 * covers before Fontaine is 'dead' but months are between that and Kashmir Incident.

Suchong's name
Now, I am very aware of how in China (and most other asian countries) surname is given before given name. However, because he was in Rapture, a very western society, I assumed that he became accustomed to western name orientation. That being Yi is his given name and Suchong is family. The page says otherwise, and I just want to be sure, but just from what I know and am used to, I was sure it was Yi as given, Suchong as surname. I do know Yi to be a given chinese surname, since a famous historical figure of china's given name was Yi. (Sima Yi if you were wondering, which I know for fact is in the surname then given name format) Miumaru 01:01, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm certain Yi is his surname. Suchong is two syllables, two characters. Suchong is his given name. I'm thinking it's either a small goof on 2K's part, or he simply doesn't care to conform to Western convention and reverse the two. 99.17.206.224 01:04, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Voice actor?
It sounds to me that James Yaegashi is Suchong's voice actor. First, he's the only one in the cast to play asian characters (especially in his Theatre credits), second, the voice sounded really similar (just listen to Woozie in GTA San Andreas or his audio books (http://www.learnoutloud.com/Results/Narrator/James-Yaegashi/15257)

Sadly, he has no Official Website, so I can't find his voiceover resume. What do you think? POLE7645 15:42, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

According to IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0944853/), yes, that is Mr. Yaegashi.Grassrunnerdaughter 19:31, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Speech
I have to ask. Is there a reason he seems so opposed to first person? I think it's probably either problems with the English language or (my money is on) being extremely conceited.Grassrunnerdaughter 19:35, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Mostly conceited. It may be speculated that its because of his broken English, but in the Audio Diaries, he says "I", "I'm", and "me", so its mostly out of being conceited. After all, the guy didn't care about anyone but himself. Evans0305 00:00, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

That brings me to the question of was he JUST full of himself or did he have some kind of emotional or mental defect that made him unable to care about others?Grassrunnerdaughter 14:56, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, he's that cold to be this self centered. Suchong didn't care about that Little Sister he smacked, or young Jack when ordered to kill a puppy. He just did his job on making an experiment work, and even that wasn't enough for him to see the Vita-Chamber's potental. Evans0305 16:14, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

That idiot....
That son of a bitch Suchong really deserved to be drill by his creations. Why he did ordered the death of the poor animal? When i play the game, i am always happy when I see his corpse and start destroying it with the shotgun and the chemical launcher. I wonder why 2K Games even invented such a cruel character! Only deserves to die! His sadistic soul made these "Big Daddies" and etc. His science is sadistic! ☭☭☭☭TitanSith888☭☭☭☭ 12:42, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * For the world of Rapture portrayed in BioShock, evil characters are as necessary as good ones. The game would not be as great without the cruelty portrayed in it. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 22:32, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's never mentioned, but I have a feeling he might have Asperger's or might be antisocial. He may actually be INCAPABLE of feeling for other people or things. I don't know why, but I liked him. You have to consider the fact that if it weren't for his work, the entire game wouldn't have happened. He had no code of ethics and he shouldn't have been a doctor, but he was also determined and I just can't help but respect him as a scientist. A lot of real people did a lot of unsavory things to get modern medicine.Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 22:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * He killed puppy. HE IS AN ENEMY OF THE REPUBLIC OF JOE!!!!!!!!Blahmarrow 23:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, as much as I dislike him, I don't think the worst he did was ordering the puppy killed. In the last levels, in little wonders(?) when you go to the freezer, you see a ghost of a gatherer talking to Suchong about not wanting to go on the table. Maybe it's just me, but considering the surrounding tables and clothes laying around, the first word that came into my mind was vivisection. Breaking a puppys neck is bad, but this is worse.--Cyberman TM 14:53, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh it's not even close to the worst thing he's done. It's just the worst thing I dislike him for.Blahmarrow has just done that 17:48, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

"due to the businessman's mismanagement "  :
Incorrect assumption. Read the Audio Diary - it Is not talking about Ryan but someone working for him who misdelivered something. How soon after the 'takeover', to then accomplish  : cleanup/repairs, lockdown and removal of anyone too Fontainie-ish,  reorganization, and personel replacements and getting things sorted  (months that takes anywhere real). Suchong in general doesnt show much patience for anyone or anything.

"where Frank Fontaine was supposedly killed along with his army of Splicers"
Is this in conflict with the previous accounts that Fontaine 'died' At Fontaine Fisheries ??

Reggie

"Ryan takes down smuggling operation... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" - Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

The previous accounts sound like the 'death' shootout took place at Fontaine Fisheries (where the smuggling operation was)

For a conflict to happen AT Fontaine Futuristics,  Fontaine didnt need to still be 'alive'  there to 'be killed' (just a bunch of his lackeys still resisting - remember Ryans forces werent Spliced yet and the City would wanyt all the violent Splicers  to be all rounded up) and it is possible Atlas directed whatever did happen.

businessman's mismanagement :
So some employee delivered one pair of BD boots to the wrong place and that defines 'mismanagement' on Ryan's part ?? You try running a city in middle of Civil War with monsters wandering the street murdering and destroying  and YOU try to hire decent help when most people are hiding at home. One hopes Suchong didnt treat his fellow employees the way he did Little Sisters  - maybe someday we will find the HR documenting complaints against him. Perhaps it was actually a fellow employee pushing Suchong's face into the Voice Adjustment machine and the BD drill thing was just a coverup (poor BDs get blamed for everything).

Testxyz (talk) 09:46, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Delta didn't kill Suchong
Someone added speculation that Subject Delta killed Suchong. It is ridiculous to believe that! We can hear Gilbert Alexander's Audio Diaries that mentions Suchong's death and Delta's information. He said Suchong was killed by failed-bonded Big Daddy that ignored his own Little SIster. After Suchong's death, Alexander improved protection bond and eventually completed it. So, first successful candidate was Delta.

Pawn of Atlas (talk) 09:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

"Conflict ??  During the course of the Civil War, he also suggested the pheromone system in marketed Plasmids to Ryan"
When later it says Suchong was killed before the Kashmir Incident (when that was supposed to be the 'starting event' of the "Civil War" ? ...

How to resolve this in the text of the article ?? Mention the conflicting stories? -- I dont think anyone has come up with a logical way to resolve this - unless the 'Civil War' is supposed to have started BEFORE Kashmir which was hardly any reason to be holding that New Years Eve party (and probably need that statement made elsewhere then to be changed also)...

I forget if there are other conflicting evidence (besides BaS)  also about the time of Suchongs death.


 * Maybe, Suchong suggested pheromone system before Civil War. After Suchong's death and Atlas's uprising, Ryan recalled Suchong's suggestion and accepted it. Got it?


 * Pawn of Atlas (talk) 14:11, March 5, 2014 (UTC)




 * Read the Text of that Audio Diary:


 * Transcript: "Doctor Suchong, frankly, I'm shocked by your proposal.  If we were to modify the structure of our commercial Plasmid line as you propose, to have them make the user vulnerable to mental suggestion through pheromones, would we not be able to effectively control the actions of the citizens of Rapture?  Free will is the cornerstone of this city.  The thought of sacrificing it is abhorrent.  However... we are indeed in a time of war.  If Atlas and his bandits have their way, will they not turn us into slaves?  And what will become of free will then?  Desperate times call for desperate measures."


 * This mentions  "Atlas",    mentions   "a time of war"  --  both of which allegedly arent spoken of until AFTER the Kashmir Incident.    "Desperate times"  ???   Not likely that Ryan would be talking in this way until after that incident ?     Not sure if BAS is usable but on MArket Street does it look like "Desperate times" ?


 * Perhaps, in that diary, Ryan probably recorded his feeling about Suchong's suggestion after 1959 New Year Eve bombing & Suchong's death. It can understand if we accepts that Ryan left message for Suchong just like Fans of Sherlock Holmes leaves letters for Holmes. If it's not, maybe Irrational games screws up about Yi Suchong.
 * Pawn of Atlas (talk) 15:10, March 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * If there were late musings by Ryan  about that suggestion, it probably would have included some past tense verbage.


 * In any case : There are alot of factoids across this game (and later multiple games) to keep straight and logical, with changes and 'artists license' which might not have been coordinated successfully to make it all coherant and non conflicting.   Its nothing new to games where its not high on the priority list (Ive seen many novels which have missed 'wrong  facts' left in them too).

Humor (modern 'comedy' style) :
Suchong: Break that sweet puppy's neck.

Little Boy: ''No... please...''

Suchong: Break that puppy's neck—would you kindly...

Little Boy: ''No... no... *''sound of violently crunching with splatter*

Suchong: ''!! SHIT !!!!.''

Little Boy: Yes Papa Suchong ...............


 * I laughed. ^^ Pauolo (talk) 14:38, March 5, 2014 (UTC)


 * Fontaine had Lot 192 made up ... what would have happened if Suchong had managed to do to Fontaine what was done to Jack??  Suchong - puppetmaster of Rapture.... (that is if his inability to maintain detachment in his work hadn't gotten him killed).

Yi Suchong is alive in BaS...
I saw him from walkthrough video... Well.... now, Bioshock 2 is fall into the bottemless pit....

Pawn of Atlas (talk) 16:22, March 25, 2014 (UTC)

Problem with Suchong's death
In the Bioshock (1) there is Protection Bond - http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Lot_255 According to 2 audio diaries recorded by Gil: 'Improving on Suchong's Work' & 'The Pair Bond Mechanism':  We know that in Bioshock 2 Gilbert Alexander upgraded the Protection Bond to Pair Bond - http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pair_Bond_Mechanism (but it was AFTER Suchong's death- after Suchong's death he took his place)

Gil Alexander, who takes Suchong's role after his death (according to first audio diary) is complaining about Suchong's Protection Bond. In the second one diary listed above, he is happy that he developed Pair Bond & sais that the first successful candidate was subject Delta (He said "The first successful candidate was... Delta, I believe" so he is not 100% sure - BUT we know, that delta is surely Pair Bonded to Eleanor & we also know, that Delta was with Eleanor DURING New Year's Eve - and that's the problem - Suchong died AFTER New Year's Eve, and according to these 2 audio diaries listed above, Protection Bond was made by Gil Alexander AFTER Suchong's death.

F.honsa (talk) 17:23, March 27, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thing is, Bioshock 2 contradicts Suchong's death due to the audio diary: "Protecting Little Ones". http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Protecting_Little_Ones


 * Here, Suchong talks of how there are benefits to war, including the Rapture Civil War. Now this can only be mentioned after the New Years Riots, as it would not make sense for there to be corpses lying on the streets for Little Sisters to collect ADAM from. That is what prompts Suchong to find a protection bond.

Birthday
Suchong lists his birthday as 1-2-1-6, which Elizabeth comments is his birthday. This leaves the question of what day exactly this is. The ones I can figure are: January 2, 1916; February 1, 1916; January 21, 1906; January 12, 1906; December 1, 1906; December 16, some indeterminable year.

I think 1906 can be out of the running because Suchong would have been 10 during World War I, and would probably have mentioned it, whereas if he had been born in 1916, he would be considerably less aware of World War I effecting him. This leaves either January 2 or February 1. Then again, there is nothing to rule out his birthday being December 16.

Thoughts? TenCents (talk to me!) 11:41, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

WW1 ? in China ? They pretty much stayed out of it (the Boxer rebellion probably put them off helping the european powers that forced trade concessions on them previously)

WW2  with Japan in China/Korea would be the thing most effecting Suchong.

By 1958 he would be  ~ 52     if his b-day was in 1906 - no too old for how he is portrayed

Suchong is now responsible for the Vita Chambers
When previous Audio Diaries showed he himself thought they were BS when Alexander and Sinclair explained it to him. Yet another conflict with the original content. He also supposedly did this work ALSO in that way-too-short interval from when he first observes Columbia/Fink  (October 14th, 1958)

Seems like they were trying to tie in too many things into the story line.

75.36.138.73 06:14, April 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * Though he addressed that he did not like the idea of it or that is was BS, he still catered to the highest bidder (Andrew Ryan) and either built it or helped build it as in that audio diary, he said "Of course, Ryan will only allow it to be tuned to his genetic frequencies for the testing..." and plus as he says "quantum entanglement that" may signify that the quantam mechanics Alexander and Sinclair were talking of were to be derived by this, even though Suchong witnessed doesn't mean he believes. 108.211.121.217 05:36, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

Its kind of hard to develop a new technology when you dont understand (or even believe in) it, as Suchong himself still says - even after "Stage one is complete". The original material made it sound like Suchong's job was more of testing it, once it had already been created by others.

The old material is itself a bit strange when "Stage one is complete"  (assuming further 'stages"...) and then testing only with Ryan's Frequencies -- how do you actually test this 'back to life' thing without actually killing someone ? and that someone having to be Ryan??

They could have just as easily said that Ryan/Sinclair/Alexander got interested in the 'Tear'/'Quantum' stuff, and saw other possibilities (while Suchong was interested in the genetic stuff, which was HIS area of science.)

SO many Products, So LITTLE Time:
October 29th Suchong develops 'ingestible' Plasmids (has only been peeking into Columbia/Fink since Oct 15...) and they (Drinkable Plasmids) are all over Rapture INCLUDING in a seized/ locked down 'sunk' prison by Dec 31 ?? (or days before that when Booker pays a visit.)

-

The drinkable plasmids were only released in the department store shortly before it was converted into a prison 46.7.95.98 10:40, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

The point was that Fontaine's goons were captured starting right after the Shootout Sep 15  and the store very soon after was seized/closed by the City and sometime after that (maybe not very long) Ryan decided to dump them all there into "Fontaine's" (refitted as a temporary prison). The date given for fink/suchong interacting so that Suchong could create the 'drinkables' (and then more delays to produce and distribute them)    would be long after  "Fontaine's" was locked down or even 'sunk'....

Fontaine Futuristics employee?
I've been thinking about it recently, was Suchong working for Fontaine and later Ryan as a mere employee or was he always on contract with them? In all his research notes in the original game, he always stated the name of his client and not his employer. Now, what is seen of him in Burial at Sea - Episode 2 shows that he had his own firm, labeled Suchong Laboratories, and probably established in his clinic at the Artemis Suites. I'm wondering if we have enough proof to say he wasn't just an employee, like Alexander, which could also explain why there is no audio diary of him at Fontaine Futuristics. Pauolo (talk) 23:33, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

I think Fontaine was just a client of Suchong, But when Suchong was forced to work for Ryan he still liked to think that Ryan was just one of his clients because he taught he was too good to actually be someone's employee. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 00:06, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Date of birth?
In Burial at Sea 2, we see that Suchong was egomaniac enough to set the code to the restaurant on his birthday date, 16-12. Looking through Suchong's diaries, I remembered that according to Extra Munitions, he also set the code to the ammunitions locker at point Prometheus on 1921. My guess is, would December 16 1921 be the complete date of his birthday? It would make him 24 or 25 by the time he joined Rapture, but that doesn't sound too far-fetched considering he was as much a genius as Tenenbaum, and she was probably younger than him. Pauolo (talk) 09:59, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

1/21/06

12/1/06

1/2/16

12/16

...


 * Is it 1-6-1-2 or 1-2-1-6?


 * Unownshipper (talk) 06:04, May 30, 2014 (UTC)


 * 1-2-1-6, I can't imagine it's just a month and a year so December 16 sounds appropriate. Pauolo (talk) 06:55, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Text from the newspaper in Silver Fin Restaurant
I just took the text and re-writhed it so if any one want the text, here it is. I believe they misspelled the word "ascend" to "acscend" and the put part that is under the handle and un-visible in _____, but i believe it  reads: "Daddies. The"



Proving that the great acscend from even the hum- blest origins, the life of Dr. Yi Suchong began as the son of a lowly house servant in rural Korea. But that was not to be for long! The events of World War II caused serious upheav-al all across Asia – and incred-ible opportunity for those bold enough to grasp it.

Move over Brigid Tenenbaum! With his ever-growing reputation for sci-entific breakthrough, Dr. Yi Suchong may have stolen your title! From the  innovative new, drinkable Plasmids, to the creation of the big daddies who built our city, Rapture’s leading medical researcher has been the mind behind it all. A Rapture man through and through, Dr. Suchong switched frequently to whichever employer valued his work the most, contracting out to Fontaine Futuristics (where he helped expand their Plasmid line with the popular Enrage and Telekinesis) and many more before his recent exclusive agree-ment with Ryan Industries. Currently focused on efforts to create a symbolic bond between Little Sisters and Big Da _____ visionary scientist – who the little ones affectionately call “Papa Suchong” – promises this work will greatly expand the beneficial roles both provide to Rapture. This reporter says. We can’t wait!

Shacob (talk) 18:49, August 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this Shacob.


 * It makes me feel uneasy that all of this info about the Protector Program was shared with the public. We know Andrew Ryan was instrumental in making the Little Sisters common knowledge among the people (Marketing Gold), but the idea that this sort of information was not only openly shared, but endorsed by various institutions like the press is more than a little scary. Was there EVER any public outcry about the fact that we're warping the minds of children to make sure we have our supply of ADAM, any at all?!


 * Unownshipper (talk) 20:40, August 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well I don't eather recall seeing or hearing about it any where else. And wasn't there advertisement for Telekinesis saying: coming soon? The newspaper article was written before the department store was turned in to a prison, so why is it saying coming soon? Didn't they just have the time to remove them?
 * Shacob (talk) 21:37, August 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * I think it's a bit strange that the enrage Plasmid is said to have been released before the civil war even started, considering it didn't really have any real everyday uses other then for combat. And the testing area for the plasmid is seen in the medical pavilion in Bioshock but I doubt that grissly sight was just left that if they only began the tests in 1958. The Medical pavilion still would of been a busy place at that time. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 23:04, August 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Little Sisters already existed under Fontaine and that was made plain to the public by Ryan.  But depending on which evidence to take, did the public fully know that there was a major addiction in the populace which would cause trouble if the ADAM supply was lessened significantly (getting a majority past their qualms of continuing to use those children).  The part I think is also changed by this (BaS) is the need so early for Big Daddies who act as protectors for Little Sisters who will be out harvesting from some multitude of corpses laying about in the streets.  It seems way too early for that.  This is before Kashmir and the press is not blanketed with front page Attrocities committed by Atlas or whoever and talking of mass casualties (which definitely would be News and this not subject to the later Press control that Ryan put on as War Measures).   Ryan is footing the bill for the Protector program, so would he do that if it wasn't a problem?   And since setting-up and producing BDs  would take alot of time, then the "need" (this alleged mass deaths) would have been a problem existing for quite some time already to require such a solution (an opportunity for ADAM - which it seemed before BaS was caused by shortages or increased need for Public Self-Protection AFTER Kashmir).


 * SO it looks like the BaS stuff warps the original canon significantly.
 * 75.36.138.151 02:29, August 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * With regards to the Telekinesis/Enrage thing, we just have to take the dates and timelines from Burial at Sea with a grain of salt as it SERIOUSLY screws with aspects of the continuity.


 * Unownshipper (talk) 02:37, August 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RetCon