Talk:Songbird

IP Pondering
Wow 0.0 Wtf is THAT?! Theories on what it is? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 15:17, 12 September 2010 (EST). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * A Big Daddy on Red Bull! LOL Charly Cohen 22:59, September 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I couldn't stop laughing for a moment ^^ --Pauolo 19:33, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

his sound
In the Demo, he sounds like a Big Daddy.  ŖЁĠÍ§Ť3ŔΣĎ ₵ΘИ†®|฿ŪŢÖṜ  Hi   23:12, September 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wrote down the same thing for my plot description of the gameplay demo. Two possibilities, in my mind. One: Irrational has no sound to give him at this time and has recycled an old big daddy groan or Two: he is some sort of inspiration for big daddies.Misterkhalil 20:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Big Daddy sounds are reminiscent of whale calls, as I've heard from an interview. It's their sound for a big hulking creature. Just because another big hulking creature in the series produces a big low noise like expected doesn't somehow make it recycle sound from Big Daddies. Especially if that article here is true, and this game has already been in the works for two and a half years. ~ Ṃᶒɠą§ɔ î é ɳ č ę { tal k }  20:15, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Photo
I have another image of Him from the Game Informer Magazine, and it has a close up on Him. Would someone kindly upload it for me? Im not good at doing uploading photos on articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 23:17, 2010 September 21 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~.

On relations between Him and Big Daddies
The GameInformer article states, time and time again, how this guy is trying to put off from the comparisons like your making. To pull out these minor similarities you find, especially saying that they make the exact same noise when all it is is a ghostly moan which any scary creature can make, is really frustrating to me.

I'm putting this here for anyone else who feels the same. ~ Ṃᶒɠą§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  19:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thougt it was valid to establish a similarity there because there are so many things in common (especially since the noise Him and the Big Daddies make isn't just similar, it's exactly the same) there's no way it can be on purpose. Once we get more data, we can put it in and let the reader see for themselves that Him is unique in such and such aspects. --Willbachbakal 19:55, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't get where you're sourcing that they literally use the same sound files for their noises, but you can't just say it is. I listened to the video before coming on here, and I understand it sounds like a big monster noise, but it's not EXACTLY the same.


 * But even more so, show me a few times on this wiki where we have trivias just for comparisons of two things through opinion or what may be coincidental in some way? ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  20:09, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, as well as anyone who has ever played BioShock a few times (or ever) that was a Big Daddy moan. Since the only people who are going to be watching the demo are fans like us anyways, Irrational probably put that in there recognizing that it was the same sound.
 * You honestly think the similarity never crossed Irrational's mind?Misterkhalil 20:14, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sure, but you're preaching it like it's some fact and not your personal opinion. Let them state things. Even so, it is extremely trivial to even mention it. More so than is usually allowed. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  20:17, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Wrench trivia article references System Shock 2, which isn't the same IP. There's even an entire section devoted to that game on this wiki. If we can reference something that's not even in the same franchise, why can't we do it for two characters in the BioShock series? It can also be pointed out that what I said wasn't opinion. Him does guard Elizabeth, who does love him (or, at least according to your own GameInformer article), he does have portholes for eyes and he is a giant destructive guardian-type thing. It's not like I pulled false or nonexistent info out of my sleeve.


 * Also, it is not trivial to reference such a fact, let alone a whole bunch of obvious similarities. If you can prove that Him sounding like a Big Daddy, acting like a Big Daddy and somewhat looking like a Big Daddy somehow doesn't make him in any way similar to a Big Daddy, then you'd be right. There is no opinion here, just cold hard facts. If you're not convinced, play Him's roar and a Big Daddy roar simultaneously. --Willbachbakal 20:22, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * That Wrench trivial should probably be removed. The other page you cited says, in it is own name, that it is for references. And at least a few of those have some confirmation from the developers. Yes, those are facts. My problem is you are telling the reader to connect them. That is not what the trivia section is about. I am not saying they aren't similar, but it is not something you would put into trivia about. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  20:39, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, how about this: I show you an object that, for all intents and purposes, looks like an apple. It's got the same size as an apple, the same smooth green skin, and the same general feel. You bite into it, and it tastes like an apple. Beforehand, you knew that I plucked the object from an apple tree. Despite all this, I tell you it's not an apple. Are you really going to believe me?

What I'm trying to explain is this: if there were only one highly superfluous coincidental similarity (if, for example, those tubes on Him looked a bit like a Big Daddy's air tubes, which is actually the case) with something outside of the wikia's subject, then it's obviously not worth mentioning. However, not only are we talking about a similarity within the BioShock franchise, it's a whole bunch of pertinent and easily observable resemblances. Ergo, it deserves trivia space. Even if the developers were to state that this was only a temporary build for Him, and that he'd be radically different in sound, appearance and background in the real game, then it would still stay, with the only difference that it would be marked as specific to the game demo. Either way, it stays. --Willbachbakal 20:52, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Willbachbakal is right about comparisons being alright as long as there is significant reason to believe the developers did it intentionally. It is well known that Irrational repeats certain elements in their 'Shock games: crumbling utopias, code sequences, plot elements etc. It isn't a stretch to say Him's "eyes" and voice are similar to a Big Daddy's. My opinion is that Irrational kept the similarities intentionally in this Demo because they knew BioShock fans would be watching and they wanted it to be a sort of wink to the previous game.
 * I agree that it feels wrong to point out the similarities when Irrational has been repeating over and over that BioShock Infinite is something new, and that there will be no "Big Daddy" in this game. I hope that Him will be much more unique in the game and that any similarities will be more subtle than they seem now.
 * That said, the similarity can't be accidental, so in my opinion the comparison can stay. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 20:59, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * My point is it seems too trivial to be in a trivial list on the page, but I give up. <abbr title="Fart">**** it. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  21:08, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * BioShock Wiki:Trivia Policy: "What is trivia?" :P ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 21:10, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Weird Name, Weird Sentences
For the grammar nuts out there: don't you think having a character called Him makes some of the sentences in the article sound a little... strange? I mean, "Him is this, Him guards Elizabeth, Him's wings..." sounds plain wrong, even if it's grammatically correct in this context. --Willbachbakal 22:04, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Until such time another name is given, if there will be another name given somehow, this is most appropriate. No matter how strange it sounds. A name is a name, after all. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  22:20, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Plus, even Ken Levine uses the name during both Game Informer's article about the game, and the site's behind-the-scenes video on the covers. I know it's difficult to work grammar into the name, especially since I was the one that first created Him's page, but that's the only name that's given. The only variation I use to refer Him is "the creature", just to be less repetitive with the name while writing sentences. To me, I think they intentionally used the name like that to give the impression that the citizens are so freaked out, it's the one thing they can say before they get killed. Him's a weird name, but then again, it was weird in the beginning to hear names like Big Daddy, Little Sister, Ducky, Crawler, etc. Like MegaScience says, a name is a name after all. Evans0305 22:49, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Haha, I think it is amusing. It reminds me of old B-movie titles à la "THEM!" ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 03:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, wait, you got me all wrong. I don't want to change Him's name (especially since it probably is his true name), I just wanted to know if you found sentence construction somewhat awkward in this article. --Willbachbakal 06:49, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Origins
OK, so if Him was created solely to guard Elizabeth, who was it that built Him? Personally, my theory is that Him was created by the ruling party of Columbia around the time when the Vox Populi began to make trouble. The ruling party knew that the Vox Populi would go after Elizabeth because of her powers, so the ruling party created Him in order to guard Elizabeth and keep the scales evenly balanced (Elizabeth is the trump card). I mean, if someone was able to build an entire city in the sky, it shouldn't be too hard to build something like Him, should it? And that's another reason why I think Him was built by the ruling party: the ruling party likely has at least some of the government officials responsible for the creation of Columbia. Him is probably only one of the many examples of Columbia being a "Death Star", as Levine put it. Thoughts? Key of Destiny 18:17, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

You're most likely right about Him being created by the ruling party. I wonder who Him is, though, if there even is someone inside that thing. Imo, Elizabeth is most likely the "superweapon" on Columbia, what with her incredible powers and her being coveted by every power-hungry faction in the city. --Willbachbakal 22:21, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

It's also possible that the Songbird wasn't really created, but rather taken from another universe through a tear.Art Dent 13:23, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Songbird?
OK, kind of an odd name, but after "Big Daddy", I'm just going to go with it. What I'd like to know is where it was confirmed that Him's real name is Songbird. I didn't see anything like "it was confirmed by So-and-So..." on the main page. Key of Destiny 13:12, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * After the move, among the other new additions to the Wiki, I looked up the name on Google. It's the confirmed name from some interview. I've been to busy to run through it, but everywhere is saying it. Personally, I liked "Him" better, too, but I can see why they'd want to avoid confusion in conversation. I don't think they ever did say against that name, either. Hopefully I'll be able to read around and help with the additions sometime. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ<font color="#009900">ᶒ<font color="#00aa00">ɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  17:11, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

K, thanks; just wanted to confirm whether it's official name or not. Key of Destiny 15:07, May 25, 2011 (UTC)