Talk:Dionysus Park

Shouldi'nt we say how both types of bouncer are encountered in this level? Delta daddie 04:13, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

=The Two Big Daddies=

When I encountered the two Bouncers defending the little sister at the PARK one of them was a reguler Bouncer but when I went close to it the lable said it was an Elite. Nexo 090 April 9, 2010

New Map
I just made this (interactive) map for Dionysus Park. Should I replace the old map with it, or don't? (If the answer is yes, I will need some help with the sizes and that fancy tab-view system.

Sorry for my bad English! 20:59, April 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but it is not high quality enough to use. It is great that you took the time to add icons and Imagemap it, but if we do use a map that shows the locations of Audio Diaries etc, we would want it to:
 * a) Use the same base image as the other plain maps on the page so it would look consistent between tabs
 * b) Use the same kind of Audio Diary, Tonic, and Plasmid icons that are in the BioShock maps, (such as Medical Pavilion/PaTMap for the sake of consistency.
 * c) Have icons without rough edges.
 * Also, if you do make this kind of custom map, we would need one for each level of Dionysus Park. Then, we wouldn't replace the current maps we have on the page, we would just add more tabs to show them beside the existing ones.
 * Another thing to keep in mind: All the maps we use in the tabs need to show at the same size, so when you Imagemap your custom images with a utility like this, you would need to use the url of an 800px wide thumbnail of the image (like http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110404222052/bioshock/images/thumb/8/86/DionysusPark_L1.png/800px-DionysusPark_L1.png is the url of an 800px wide File:DionysusPark L1.png). If you don't use the url of an 800px wide thumbnail, the Imagemap coordinates won't match the resized image.
 * ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 02:45, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's okay, I didn't expected much more. But I still would like to make maps, so I have some question and argument about these things:
 * --Can I use the maps that already on the Wiki? I made this one over here all my own, but this take a lot of time. It would be easier use the work someone already done. This method also would mostly solve the rough edges problem.
 * --Can I put all icon on the same map, or sort them ind the manner of the first game's maps? (I don't suggest the later option. In the second game every level already has more than one map, and triplicate them make the whole stuff unuseable.)
 * --I like consistency, and I thought about using those icons. But I like aesthetics too, and I think the icons used in the first game's maps simply don't passing in the thematics of the maps. So I use those in-game icons which I extracted from the game myself. These ones are matching to the thematics. I won't quit, if I can't using them, but I would use them, if possible.
 * --I create an icon to the PttP station. This is okay, or edit out from the next version?
 * --I used the GIMP's imagemap-editor to make the imagemap. And this page says "all coordinates are in relation to the full-size image, not the visible image," which is the thumbnail image, right? So now what?
 * --Of course, I want to make the maps of the other levels too--as soon as we clarify how shall I do it.
 * Sorry for my bad English! 10:46, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Feel free to use the already uploaded maps as base images.
 * It would be nice if we could just have a single image with icons for locations of items in all levels of the map, but many areas of the game have too many levels for that to be practical, since not all portions of the area would show on a single map level.
 * As for the type of icons: the main advantage of the Tonic/Plasmid bottle and Audio Diary icons used for the BioShock maps is that they do stand out so well compared to the other normal icons on the map. Additionally, you may have noticed that most of the Plasmid/Tonic icons for BioShock 2 are not consistent quality. I would prefer not to use them in the maps unless they are as clean looking as the BioShock Tonic Icons. I have been working on vectoring some of the BioShock 2 icons (example), but most of the icons are still not clean.
 * Showing PttP locations would be a good idea, but it might be better to use an icon that stands out more. EDlTOR once made a Power to the People icon that you could consider using: Power to the People Icon.png
 * The visible image would be the thumbnail version. If you have an average or better internet connection, I recommend using an online Imagemap utility. This one lets you use an image url, so you could input the url of the thumbnail at the correct size.
 * ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 13:47, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * The PttP icon looks great, I will use it. But I still have two problem:
 * --The imagemapping program whom you recommended, don't load in the image which I want to mapping. Combine this with the fact my internet connection likes to break down in the worst moment, I would rather stick to the offline solution. I suppose, if I create the imagemap on a 800px image diminished by GIMPon my computer, and use this on the image diminished here by the thumbnail mechanism, that can works too.
 * --" the main advantage of the Tonic/Plasmid bottle and Audio Diary icons used for the BioShock maps is that they do stand out so well compared to the other normal icons on the map."
 * I think that the main disadventage of these icons that they stand out so well compared to the normal icons. The Bioshock games has an own icon system, but these icons aren't part of it. The icons I used are. And...
 * --I once made (a full set of) tonic icons for Bioshock 2. These icons are in 128px. In 64px they're already sharp, and I put them on the big image in 32px. Plus the big image's sises will been halved, so the final sise of the icons are 16px. It's the other end of the bad quality you're afraid... The AD icon cutted from a screenshot of the first game, so it's clear in 64px, and halved in size too.
 * Of course, I would welcome a bigger/better-looking AD icon, especially about the rough edges. The smoother parts of photoshopping don't going well for me.
 * Wass12 18:26, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Technically, none of the icons we want to use are part of the map icon system, but they are all images from the game. I think the only consideration should be which icons would be easiest for viewers to understand. Unfortunately, with the icons you propose, it is difficult to distinguish between different types of items on the map without hovering the cursor over each one, because icons for Plasmids and Tonics share the same style, and even icons for Audio Diaries have the same color scheme. The map makers in the game understood that it is easier to distinguish between icons that are brightly colored, and that is why all the vending machine etc. icons are colorful and distinct.
 * It would be nice to see what other people think of the options for icons, so I will try to get some other editors to voice their opinions here.
 * In the mean time, if you have good versions of the BioShock 2 Tonic icons, would you kindly upload them? They would be a great help for the wiki. This forum topic has a table that lists the Tonics that need better icons: Forum:Merging Gene Tonic articles. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 23:39, April 26, 2011 (UTC


 * Well, for me the map is fine, even if I don't like the quality of the icons. In fact, it is clearer than the strategy guide so maybe we should keep that. And for the Power to the People machines, well it's a bit problematic since readers may not associate that icon with them. --Pauolo 07:06, April 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have about the same opinion as Pauolo here. The map itself is mostly good, although some the icons need reworking. For example, the skulls don't ring any bells for me, and the Power to the People icon looks a lot like one of the Gene Tonic icons in the map. Personally, I think the icon Gard's proposing and that ED1TOR came up with would work beter in the latter case. Also, instead of giving each Gene Tonic its own unique icon, wouldn't it be better to simply give them all an easily recognizable and brightly colored one? If readers want to find out which Tonic is in X location, they can check the "New Discoveries" section below, and on the map itself it would avoid having an icon overload; especially since there are already a lot of them as it is. --Willbachbakal 10:12, April 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Have both of you compared the added icons on the map above to the icons that were added to the BioShock maps?


 * Also, Willbachbakal, the red and white skulls are from the original map. :P They mark the location of ADAM bodies. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 14:07, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Wilbachbakal: Do you think on something like this?
 * TonicButton.png
 * Well, I can make a compremise about that. Then this will be the icon for the Tonics (because it's the icon of the Gene Tonic Slot in the GG). There must be an icon to the Plasmid Slots too somewhere (just I cannot find it here), so we have two sharply different icon for all kinds of the genetic goo. It's okay?
 * About the ADAM corpse icon: I haven't have idea where to link them, so I didn't link them anywhere.
 * @Gardimuer: The icons I want to use are actual icons from the games--even if not from the maps but from other icon sets. The icons used on the BS1 maps wasn't intended to use as icons in the HUD/menu system but as "realistic" in-game graphics.
 * The distinguishibility is something that I must agree. So I suggest this system:
 * -The icons already on the map stay on their place.
 * -The PttP icon will be the one you suggested, in 24px.
 * -The Tonic icon: see above, in 32px.
 * -Plasmid icon: The plasmis slot's icon fron the Gatherer's Garden. (Maybe with red circumference?) 32px too.
 * -AD icon: The one I suggested, in 24px.
 * + May we should put a legend under the maps.
 * Wass12 14:41, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * + May we should put a legend under the maps.
 * Wass12 14:41, April 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't really see the difference, besides size... Really, the maps seem okay, but there's a lot going on here I can't fully understand. What I'm getting is there's some minor differences which might help... But I think we should mix in the good and bad of each version of the map.


 * As a side note, when I checked the maps on the main page, this was under it: {"addAfterSection":null,"pages":[],"skipRendering":true,"request":{},"response":{},"app":{}} Apparently, there's some coding error that's making that come out as plain text. That should definitely be priority. ~ Ṃᶒɠ<font color="#00bb00">ą<font color="#00cc00">§<font color="#00dd00">ɔ î é ɳ č ę <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t<font color="#ff8800">al k }  07:36, April 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * The skulls are ADAM bodies? Oops, my bad. Anyway, for the Gene Tonic icons, I'd personally go for the blue ADAM bottle, and use the red version to indicate Plasmid locations. Although their general shape would be similar, the colors are completely different and easily identifiable to anyone who's played the first few levels of BioShock 1 or 2. Other than that, every other suggestion seems fine. --Willbachbakal 10:08, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * As I said, the entire controversy is about the aesthetic of the maps. The plasmid bottle icons stand out of the picture like a phone box in the middle of a grassy field. The round icons I suggested pass into the style of the maps, and putting a legend under the map (which is used on the in-game maps, by the way) solve the possible recognition problems. So why should been broken the design of the maps, if there is a more better-looking and unambigous alternative?
 * Wass12 12:41, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * No objection? Just because I would like to create the map at this weekend.
 * Wass12 17:42, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * No objection? Just because I would like to create the map at this weekend.
 * Wass12 17:42, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Wass12, please be patient. At the moment there isn't a clear consensus. Willbachbakal has actually stated that he preferred the bottle icons, so until other people state a preference it would be best to wait. However, you can go ahead with uploading another version of the map with cleaner icons if you want to demonstrate your idea.

Also, I want to warn you that I may not be able to keep up with this discussion very well in coming days, since a Tornado took out the power at my apartment. If you want to have a community vote about the map icons, we can set up a forum topic about this subject and notify people of it with a community message. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 01:38, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

After I read your answer, I decided to create the map. That's it:



I based it on this map. I put in the missing Gene Bank icon at the Carousel area, but the slightly misplaced icons stayed in their place. The Tonic icon comes from here and placed in 32px. I worked quite a lot on the AD icon, and finally use it in 32 px because in 24 px it become unrecognizable. (BTW, I've got a 75px AD icon as a byproduct. Upload it?) The PttP icon the one proposed by Gardimuer. If it's okay for you, I'll make the imagemap to it.

So, opinions?

Wass12 10:02, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

I like the new map. Blue Gene Tonic Bottles might be a good idea, but the map representation works, too. A legend would be a good idea (stick it on the page or the map), since people might not know what some of the icons mean anyway, such as the Bot shutdown symbol (which looks like a sheild). Just one thing: the Little Sister Vent in Park (by the CoV) is slightly, for lack of a better word, "broken". Dark Swarmlord 10:46, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

^What he said. You're doing a great job, it's almost perfect. --Willbachbakal 23:07, April 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * This looks very good. My only suggestion is that you make the added icons much larger so that they will be distinguishable when the map is view at 800px dimensions.
 * Dark Swarmlord, the icons in the map may look a bit distorted, but that is the way they show on the map in-game when zoomed in different ways, so it's a fault of the game's programing. The distortion is undetectable when the map is 800px wide, as it will be within the tabs in the article.
 * Regarding a map legend, I have planned to make something like that for a while. You can see my preliminary version at User:Gardimuer/Test. Of course, there will be a different version of the legend for each game. If Wass12 uploads the icons in a large size, I can add them to the legend. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 04:17, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Er... I thought we should use slightly bigger thumbnails. Because the icons in Bioshock 2 maps quite small, compared to the size of the maps, and rather distinguishable through color and general shape, than details. I think 1000px would be enough(just below) Above there, I resized the another specimen to 800px.

This solution would make the entire map more visible, and none of the icons would be oversized. The AD icon are here, the Plasmid icon still uncreated, and the other icons already linked here. The legend seems fine. Wass12 09:14, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

In the meantime, I found a PLasmid Slot icon on the wiki, but it's a JPEG and just 80px. The Slot icon I got from BS1 is approximately 100px and lossless. I used this to create a "Plasmid button":



I would like to use this as a Plasmid icon. It's okay?

Wass12 14:41, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I almost forget this: where to link the ADAM corpses? Just because I couldn't find any "ADAM corpse" page...

Wass12 19:20, May 1, 2011 (UTC)