Talk:Yi Suchong

Chinese or Korean
while the idea that Suchong may be Korean is intriguing, there is one major issue with it:

He describes the Japanese attacking and slaughtering his city.

Now, the Japanese were entirely capable of being brutal to the Koreans, but an all out assault and massacre? That meshes far better given their behavior in China.

By WWII, Korea had been a part of the Japanese Empire for roughly thirty years, and was considered a part and parcel of a "Greater Japan." The Imperial regime certainly persued ugly policies of Nipponization and other "charming" activities, but they weren't doing much on such a scale (for the same reason, the possibility that he is Manchurian is unlikely: the Japanese were cruel taskmasters, but they didn't raze entire cities wholesale in 1931, when they walked into Manchuria)

The alternative is that, somehow, Suchong described the 1894/95 Conquest of Korea from the Qing/Manchu Chinese Empire, where the Japanese did actually assault Korea. However, since Suchong would have to have been grown up by that point (let's say 18 years minimum), he would have to be around, oh, 60-70 years old by the time of his death. Slim possiblity? Yes, but not a great one.

That, and the fact remains that Japan's conduct in 1894 wasn't nearly as bad as it would be after the war or in China, and we have a wrap.

Yes, the idea of him being a collaborator hired by the US after the war is intriguing, but the fact remains that there are countless ways he could have escaped from a similar situation in China, not the least amongst them being the fact that he simply sold the Japanese out (if, indeed, he was more involved with them than a one-time opium sale/givaway to save his neck) to the KMT or CCP as the war turned.

Also, if he happends to be Korean, with the same Chinese caratrer, the Roman-letter spelling of his name 易蘇崇 would be Ri Seojong, but Yi Suchong is the Chinese way of Roman-letter spelling so it is far more likely for the reasons I have stated that he is Chinese. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 09:20, 2009 May 17. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * Likely he is chinese, but merely pointing out since I like to, definatly he was living in china during the attack. It is possible though he was korean, or half korean though. Perhaps his father was korean and his mother chinese. I do not know if suchong is a korean name, but it sounds possible from what I do know. Yi is a chinese name though, but Korea was heavily influenced by china for a extremely long time. That also aids the possibility he was atleast a bit korean, since I would bet many chinese born citizens could be korean desendants. Miumaru 01:14, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * In Bioshock: Rapture, Ryan states, "The hardest one to get at was this quite peculiar but brilliant fellow, name of Suchong--he was stuck in Korea during the Japanese occupation". The book notes that it is 1946 when he said this. I believe Suchong also went missing during that year. I simply have the feeling the developers didn't think much about his nationality until after the fact.Grassrunnerdaugher 17:53, October 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just because it's said in the novel doesn't mean it's completely right, given the amount of errors in it. There are also, as far as I know at least two historical mistakes in it, one of them pretty large. Also, in SitS there was this newspaper article written in Chinese. I'm not sure how possible it is that a Chinese paper would write about a missing Korean scientist at that time. The Sanity Assassin 00:54, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I removed the Naking and birth date info from the article since we don't have any solid facts to base it on. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 04:22, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * It is my belief that he was intended to be such a minor character that the writers didn't make him any particular nationality.Grassrunnerdaugher 04:37, October 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I doubt that is the case. Ken Levine (creative director of BioShock) mentioned on his twitter account that he once came up with an entire back story for Brigid Tenenbaum, including her place of birth, etc. Compared to other characters in BioShock, Suchong is relatively major, so I think it is likely that he also had a developed backstory that was never revealed in the game. ~Gardimuer   { ʈalk } 17:34, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to cross out his identity as a Korean unless his name 易蘇崇 is some kind of an alias. At first I thought his name could be Korean since the surname Lee, "이" in Korean, is sometimes romanized as Yi. However, Korean names also use Chinese characters and the Korean surname "Yi" uses the Chinese character "李" not "易". The Chinese character "易" is pronounced as Yi in Chinese, but it would be prounced as Yuhk in Korean. If his true name was printed on this newspaper article, the possibility of him actually being a Korean but having had his name romanized using Chinese pronunciation can be crossed out too. This is because "易" isn't even a surname in Korea. Munchinghippo 16:07, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Big Daddy Prime's First Kill
There is a very high possibility that Yi Suchong was killed by none other than the very first Big Daddy. First of all, note the fact that the drill was still in his body meaning that it was detachable and that the Big Daddy wasn't strong enough to simply rip it out of the table. There is only one Big Daddy that fit these characteristics.

Now of course there's the argument "well the Big Daddy defended the Little Sister meaning that the mental condition experiment was a success and that the prototype doesn't have that conditioning." But what if it wasn't a success? What if the Big Daddy simply chose to kill him. What if it honestly cared about the Little Sister and became sick and tired of Suchong's abusive behavior.

Then of course there is the fact that Suchong's body was still there. Suchong died during the late developement stages of the Big Daddies, before Rapture fully erupted into civil war. And yet nobody bothered to remove his body... What if Tenenbaum witnessed the whole scene and rather than report Suchong's death to Ryan, she simply finished the mind control batch for him and put the big daddy into hibernation for safe keeping?

Consider it food for thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 03:48, 15 September 2009. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * Very good points. I assumed the same thing. I always figured the reason Delta was locked up in hibernation was because of what he had done to Suchong. Delta's sanity and free will may be the reason why the protection bond didn't work initially. --Ant423 05:57, January 2, 2010 (UTC)Ant423


 * There's one flaw with that. the fact that the drill is ment for a bouncer. meaning he wasn't killed by delta. it was most likely done by a Bouncer. GeneralOwnage55 20:24, January 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean anything. Maybe the drill was meant for a bouncer, but it happened to be in the room and Delta knew how to operate it. Also, the fact that the drill was DETACHED means that it is not a bouncer drill but the hand held drill the Delta uses. Ant423 21:20, January 13, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

ive actualy jumped on the drill and theres mesh where deltas hand would go. meaning it came from a bouncer or one of the other prototype big daddies if they lived.. --GeneralOwnage55


 * Suchong was not killed by delta. delta was created after his death by alexander. --Sgt. j-man


 * The model file used for the drill is irrelevant because the Delta character did not exist when the first game was made so the drill (which would have to be redesigned to suit handheld use, the first person view and the addition of upgrades) didn't either.
 * There is an Audio Diary which states the Alpha Series were the Big Daddies in operation when Suchong was killed, given that Suchong was surprised to be attacked I think it's fair to say the killer Big Daddy must have been the first successful bond and we know that first bond was Delta (this is also stated in the same Audio Diary). Any scenario in which Suchong could be killed by a different Big Daddy is clutching at straws, and if it wasn't Delta they wouldn't have bothered with this audio diary.
 * The Audio Diary is "The Pair Bond Mechanism" by Gil Alexander and can be found in Siren Alley.
 * "The pair bond is a success! If somehow an Alpha Series wanders too far from his Little Sister, our physical fail safe kicks in: a chemical trigger than induces coma. It is a symbiotic relationship, enforced by the girl's pheremone signature. The first successful candidate was... Delta I believe. It is unfortunate that poor Dr Suchong will not be here to raise a glass."
 * The link is almost certainly retroactive as I doubt even the idea of Delta existed when the first game was made, but it's there in the second game.
 * DazJW 21:11, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * You are assuming. You are going "Well, if I assume this and that, I can say he did it without ANYONE actually saying any facts that could even give it POSSIBILITY!" Another audio diary you apparently missed talks about Suchongs death being a tragedy, but the project moves on with Gil. Seems like they were still developing them when he died. Just because a Big Daddy protected a Little Sister doesn't mean they had a bond. It could have just been a reaction they had been working on. ~Ṃ ᶒ ɠ ą § ɔ î é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 21:46, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

If it reacted then there was obviously a bond present. In Rapture as portrayed in the first game there's no Delta or Alpha Series and there are no Big Daddies with any emotions. By the lore of the first game all Big Daddies had been Bouncers or Rosies so the one in that diary was a Bouncer acting because of the bond (the drill was just left to communicate exactly how Suchong was killed and because it looked cool). We now have this Bioshock 2 diary which says they were working on the Alpha Series bond at the time of Suchong's death and the first one with a successful bond was Delta. There's another releveant diary - "Improving on Suchong's Work" - which shows Gil was responsible for adding the lethal component to the bond already created by Suchong.

Suchong was killed by the first bonded Big Daddy. The first bonded Big Daddy was Delta. DazJW 09:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * There are three audio diaries in the game which are pretty much picked up in the chronological order they were recorded:


 * 1) Improving on Suchong's Work - This was recorded after the first semi-successful pair bond; the one in which Suchong died. However, it was not an Alpha Series bond because it was not an "unbreakable physiological bond." The Big Daddy that killed Suchong was a failed bond; Gil speaks of it in very negative terms, saying the Big Daddy pretty much ignores the girl except when she is threatened. This problem was what started his idea for making a stronger bond between the pairs.
 * 2) A Father's Love - This audio diary was recorded after the Alpha Series was begun, but before the the "unbreakable physiological bond" was first engineered. In it Alexander first comes up with the idea for the special Alpha Series bond: "Something physical... possibly even lethal...Bonded pairs... connected by a love that kills."
 * 3) The Pair Bond Mechanism - Finally, in this diary Gil talks about Delta's bond; Delta was the first successful bond that involved the "chemical trigger that induces coma." Thus the first successful Alpha bond; not the semi-successful bond that caused Suchong's accidental death. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer <font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622> <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait">  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 17:21, February 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm in agreement with Gardimuer on this one. As an avid student of the Bioshock canon, I cannot accept that Delta killed Suchong. Alpha series came after Suchong's
 * death, Alphas were Gil's creations, improving on Suchong's failed work. To think that Delta did such a thing is just premature wishful thinking. Kumasaki 11:57, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Blood
Is there an explanation as to why his picture is the only one splattered with blood? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) 22:57, 2009 December 23. Please sign your posts with ~ !


 * It could be because he has the only audio diary that takes place during his death. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 02:01, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Charity work
it is worth mentioning that Suchong's free clinic may be a front for his experiments, I mean you would expect him to be experimenting on the protection bond in a lab, not a back room of his own clinic.Malcont 11:40, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

One thing
Seems strange that no one cared at all to pick up Suchong's corpse or even remove the drill after his grisly death, Sullivan found him, yet he did nothing, he didn't even got a proper funeral or whatever. He was one of the most high-profiled citizens of Rapture yet he was just left there, rotting. (KingShodo 03:17, February 27, 2010 (UTC))


 * If someone had tidied up you would have had the impressive scene to stumble upon. Not everything is an in-story decision. DazJW 11:13, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the plain danger of the area at the time. To go out of their way to clean up in such an environment could leave themselves exposed to Splicer attack and such. Anyway, there's no point, since Suchong's office was his and no one would be managing it after his death. Might as well leave him there, it won't make a difference. ~<span title="Never harmed a kitten... Just cats!" style="cursor:crosshair"><span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ <font color="#009900">ᶒ <font color="#00aa00">ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 14:50, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Suchong's year of death
Alexander said Suchong was dead when Delta was succesfully bond to his Little Sister : "The pair bond is a success [...] The first successful candidate was... Delta I believe. It is unfortunate that poor Dr Suchong will not be here to raise a glass'"'. But if Delta was protecting Eleanor in 1958 as we can see in Bioshock 2's opening cinematic, then Suchong must have died in 1958 or before, and not in 1959 when Delta was dead.

Pauolo 17:17, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * We know Suchong was working for Ryan following Fontaine's 'death' in September '58 and that he was dead by the time Delta was created some time before he was out on New Years Eve '58 patroling with Eleanor. This gives us a window of only a few months in which Suchong likely died. We can only assume his suggestion to Ryan regarding mind control plasmids was taken up many months after his death (Ryan originally expressed disgust at this idea, maybe he took some time to come round to it). Now there's only the matter of why Suchong's body was left to rot in his clinic for over a year... Maybe Apollo Square was considered too dangerous (as a stronghold of Atlas supporters) for it to be worth retrieving Suchong's body even before the New Years Eve attacks that kicked off the civil war properly?
 * Breanainn 20:21 March 15 2010

Suchong's name
Now, I am very aware of how in China (and most other asian countries) surname is given before given name. However, because he was in Rapture, a very western society, I assumed that he became accustomed to western name orientation. That being Yi is his given name and Suchong is family. The page says otherwise, and I just want to be sure, but just from what I know and am used to, I was sure it was Yi as given, Suchong as surname. I do know Yi to be a given chinese surname, since a famous historical figure of china's given name was Yi. (Sima Yi if you were wondering, which I know for fact is in the surname then given name format) Miumaru 01:01, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm certain Yi is his surname. Suchong is two syllables, two characters. Suchong is his given name. I'm thinking it's either a small goof on 2K's part, or he simply doesn't care to conform to Western convention and reverse the two. 99.17.206.224 01:04, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Voice actor?
It sounds to me that James Yaegashi is Suchong's voice actor. First, he's the only one in the cast to play asian characters (especially in his Theatre credits), second, the voice sounded really similar (just listen to Woozie in GTA San Andreas or his audio books (http://www.learnoutloud.com/Results/Narrator/James-Yaegashi/15257)

Sadly, he has no Official Website, so I can't find his voiceover resume. What do you think? POLE7645 15:42, May 14, 2011 (UTC)

According to IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0944853/), yes, that is Mr. Yaegashi.Grassrunnerdaughter 19:31, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Speech
I have to ask. Is there a reason he seems so opposed to first person? I think it's probably either problems with the English language or (my money is on) being extremely conceited.Grassrunnerdaughter 19:35, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Mostly conceited. It may be speculated that its because of his broken English, but in the Audio Diaries, he says "I", "I'm", and "me", so its mostly out of being conceited. After all, the guy didn't care about anyone but himself. Evans0305 00:00, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

That brings me to the question of was he JUST full of himself or did he have some kind of emotional or mental defect that made him unable to care about others?Grassrunnerdaughter 14:56, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, he's that cold to be this self centered. Suchong didn't care about that Little Sister he smacked, or young Jack when ordered to kill a puppy. He just did his job on making an experiment work, and even that wasn't enough for him to see the Vita-Chamber's potental. Evans0305 16:14, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

That idiot....
That son of a bitch Suchong really deserved to be drill by his creations. Why he did ordered the death of the poor animal? When i play the game, i am always happy when I see his corpse and start destroying it with the shotgun and the chemical launcher. I wonder why 2K Games even invented such a cruel character! Only deserves to die! His sadistic soul made these "Big Daddies" and etc. His science is sadistic! ☭☭☭☭TitanSith888☭☭☭☭ 12:42, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * For the world of Rapture portrayed in BioShock, evil characters are as necessary as good ones. The game would not be as great without the cruelty portrayed in it. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 22:32, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's never mentioned, but I have a feeling he might have Asperger's or might be antisocial. He may actually be INCAPABLE of feeling for other people or things. I don't know why, but I liked him. You have to consider the fact that if it weren't for his work, the entire game wouldn't have happened. He had no code of ethics and he shouldn't have been a doctor, but he was also determined and I just can't help but respect him as a scientist. A lot of real people did a lot of unsavory things to get modern medicine.Grassrunnerdaughter (talk) 22:50, November 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * He killed puppy. HE IS AN ENEMY OF THE REPUBLIC OF JOE!!!!!!!!Blahmarrow 23:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, as much as I dislike him, I don't think the worst he did was ordering the puppy killed. In the last levels, in little wonders(?) when you go to the freezer, you see a ghost of a gatherer talking to Suchong about not wanting to go on the table. Maybe it's just me, but considering the surrounding tables and clothes laying around, the first word that came into my mind was vivisection. Breaking a puppys neck is bad, but this is worse.--Cyberman TM 14:53, November 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh it's not even close to the worst thing he's done. It's just the worst thing I dislike him for.Blahmarrow has just done that 17:48, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

"due to the businessman's mismanagement "  :
Incorrect assumption. Read the Audio Diary - it Is not talking about Ryan but someone working for him who misdelivered something. How soon after the 'takeover', to then accomplish  : cleanup/repairs, lockdown and removal of anyone too Fontainie-ish,  reorganization, and personel replacements and getting things sorted  (months that takes anywhere real). Suchong in general doesnt show much patience for anyone or anything.

"where Frank Fontaine was supposedly killed along with his army of Splicers"
Is this in conflict with the previous accounts that Fontaine died At Fontaine Fisheries ??

Reggie

"Ryan takes down smuggling operation... Fontaine and thugs killed in fiery shootout!" - Headline, Rapture Standard, 9/12/58

The previous accounts sound like the 'death' shootout took place at Fontaine Fisheries (where the smuggling operation was)

For a conflict to happen AT Fontaine Futuristics,  Fontaine didnt need to still be 'alive'  there to 'be killed' (just a bunch of his lackeys still resisting - remember Ryans forces werent Spliced yet and the City would wanyt all the violent Splicers  to be all rounded up) and it is possible Atlas directed whatever did happen.

businessman's mismanagement :
So some employee delivered one pair of BD boots to the wrong place and that defines 'mismanagement' on Ryan's part ?? You try running a city in middle of Civil War with monsters wandering the street murdering and destroying  and YOU try to hire decent help when most people are hiding at home. One hopes Suchong didnt treat his fellow employees the way he did Little Sisters  - maybe someday we will find the HR documenting complaints against him. Perhaps it was actually a fellow employee pushing Suchong's face into the Voice Adjustment machine and the BD drill thing was just a coverup (poor BDs get blamed for everything).

Testxyz (talk) 09:46, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Delta didn't kill Suchong
Someone added speculation that Subject Delta killed Suchong. It is ridiculous to believe that! We can hear Gilbert Alexander's Audio Diaries that mentions Suchong's death and Delta's information. He said Suchong was killed by failed-bonded Big Daddy that ignored his own Little SIster. After Suchong's death, Alexander improved protection bond and eventually completed it. So, first successful candidate was Delta.

Pawn of Atlas (talk) 09:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)