Talk:Brigid Tenenbaum

I like this page. - §tigma-231 ♠ ʍo uld y  ю u kɨn  dly [ łalk ][ ςont ] 03:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Since when is Tenenbaum Jewish?
I'm looking at the history section, and while I have no problem with the posibility of that being her religious background, there's no evidence to back it up. Yes she was at the concentration camps. Yes her last name could be argued to sound like a cliche Jewish name. However, unless proper evidence can be brought up to back this up, it ought to be removed, under the grounds of simply being speculation, or cited as being just speculation.

While there isn't any canon evidence (that I'm aware of, I may be wrong,) she compares the Big Sister's plight to the story of the golem in the Hunting the Big Sister video. The golem is a creature common in Jewish folklore, and the specific story she's referencing is one which was first published in 1837, but didn't begin to hit the world as a whole until around 1914. That's all I've got. Until it's concrete though, I agree, it should be taken out. FrauKraut 02:16, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, she was imprisoned by the Nazis at a young age, right? The Nazis only imprisoned those they considered "Unclean," such as Jews, gypsys, homosexuals, and individuals who were mentaly or physicaly disabled. By the looks of it, she is not homosexual, a gypsy, and obviously is not physicaly or mentaly disabled. My guess? She's a Jew. The Nazis didn't kill her outright, cause she was of some use to them. They usually killed woman and children first, saving the men to work in factories and labor camps. Don't argue, I know more about the second world war and the Thrid Reich than anyone here. Mr Bio Shock  http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/thumb/a/a1/Physical_Tonic.png/15px-Physical_Tonic.png 15:39, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

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^^^ You dont seem to know as much as you think. Read a little more. Nazis saw just about everyone else as inferior and sub-human. They had plans to exterminate all the Slavs (and did murder them wholesale also, any Russian POW who fell into their hands didnt have a good life-expectancy). Actually anyone who disagreed with them )Nazis) could be sent to a concentration camp (one of the first - Dachau - had german political opponents in it.)   Catholic Priests got sent to concentration camps in droves for speaking out against Nazi policies. Dutch civilians who helped jews were sent to concentration camps. Forced labor camps containing millions were little better than the concentration camps and huge numbers of non-germans died in them.

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Well, this was an old topic from last year that should have been resolved already. But just in case, here's proof of her being Jewish: If you look at the left arm of the concept art's middle image, you can see that she is implied that she was from a concentration camp for being a Jew. If you listen to Love for Science and Useless Experiments, it's implied that she didn't just go to a German prison camp, but she was originally imprisoned there, and the Germans did find her skills useful enough to keep her alive for her to work with them on their eugenic tests. She even has a Jewish last name, and uses some Jewish terminology like "Golem". All of that points to her being of Jewish decant. Evans0305 17:50, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Link
Hey does anyone have a link to the leaked information for dr. tenenbaum. I would really like it if I could see it.
 * Ask MegaScience. He is the one with the info. ~Gardimuer  { ʈalk } 07:21, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Time for a name change...
According to the new article at the Cult of Rapture Tenenbaum's first name is spelled "Brigid." I just realized that it is spelled that way in Ulrich Broder's article as well.

So... do you think 2K just changed it for the second game, or have we been spelling it wrong for all this time? Is her full name ever seen in the first game? ~Gardimuer  { ʈalk } 18:57, January 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * 2K Liz has confirmed this, I was just in the process of changing everything to Brigid. She says that the true spelling is Brigid. It's also spelled that way in SITS. Permission to change? Epstein CoR 21:18, January 14, 2010 (UTC)Epstein CoR


 * No permission needed; go right ahead. This makes me realize that the Audio Diary template needs to be updated for Bio2... ~Gardimuer  { ʈalk } 01:02, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Gardimuer, you need to get on the IRC. Also, he was talking about here, but I still think that, although it's the proper name, her name is probably still somehow Bridgette in the game somewhere. ~ Ṃ ᶒ ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 16:41, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think that, just because it's her new proper name, all BioShock 1 and other information about her should be completely changed to it. It's the proper name, but by far not the accepted name she had in the first game. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ <font color="#009900">ᶒ <font color="#00aa00">ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 16:57, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember Sofia vs. Sophia? Just because we always assumed that it was Bridgette does not mean that it is canon. We go with the official name; the one that 2K says is correct.
 * If you can find the name "Bridgette" used in BioShock, then we will keep Bridgette. Otherwise, Brigid is the correct spelling. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 22:07, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, here's the reference I remember from BioShock. We could place this name in the trivia, considering Liz said that Brigid is now the official name. <font color=#COCOCO>EDlTʘR  <font color=#COCOCO>•taIk• 22:25, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm. So, we put a note about the name change in the trivia and use the name "Brigid" on all pages? Does that sound good? ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 22:39, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. If 2K wants to change her name, so be it. After all, they made her character. <font color=#COCOCO>EDlTʘR  <font color=#COCOCO>•taIk• 22:42, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I like Brigid better anway, sounds more German.--KyburzCOR 22:52, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I highly suggest to the High Imperatrix to leave the article protected for some time longer; as to defend against any unnecessary activity from users anonymous or otherwise.


 * BlueIsSupreme 00:17, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you think 24 or 48 hours will be long enough? ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 02:29, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is a quote Liz made on the name, just so there is no further confusion "If anyone else is disagreeing with me over that spelling, link me and I'll explain. I talked to Jordan about the spelling and he was given that spelling from Ken directly - that is how Ken prefers it. It is canon." So if anyone has any future question, Liz/Jordan will confirm Brigid to be the definitive spelling.


 * To the extent that "Bridgette" appears in Bioshock 1, it could be interpreted as a typo by someone in Rapture who was unused to the Germanic spelling of her name. --KyburzCOR 23:59, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * This still sounds exactly like how he LIKES the name and not how the name WILL ACTUALLY BE. Either way, I have gone about and changed EVERY instance of Bridgette Tenenbaum to Brigid Tenenbaum on all languages of the wiki.


 * In advance: If it turns out to just be a developer preferred name and not the actual named used ingame, I am not responsible for the massive undo that will need to be done. As you guys have said, she said that is the named used in the game and not a Developers Preferred name that would go in the Trivia section of her article. We must completely change any occurrence of her name to fit how it only appears from the developers mouths. ~ <span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ <font color="#009900">ᶒ <font color="#00aa00">ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 02:48, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

The protection on this page has now been removed. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 19:30, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, what a mess. Anyway, I believe the only time Bridgette is used in Bioshock is her apartment in Mercury Suites, which uses the full name on doorways. We could add it as a minor note. Sledgehammerx 21:17, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Locked
Does anyone notice that this page has been locked. I find that kinda rude due to the fact nobody talked about this. If it was by accident, I suggest you fix it. Tyler Thomson 22:01, January 16, 2010 (UTC)MeLovGamng

The Admins have locked the page over the name change issue. If I'm right, the page will be unlocked by tomorrow. <font color=#COCOCO>EDlTʘR  <font color=#COCOCO>•taIk• 22:05, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I see. Thanks anyways. Tyler Thomson 22:07, January 16, 2010 (UTC)MeLovGamng

Tenenbaum MIA??
Does anybody actually have any idea where Tenenbaum goes at the start of Bioshock 2? she says she needs to leave that ticket room but I'm uncertain as to whether she means Rapture as well? What happened to ya Bridge? 11:42, February 10, 2010 Batjimi
 * If you listen closely she says 'other' people need her help. Sounds like a setup for a future installment to me. Jarwulf 01:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

It is unknown what happened to Brigid Tenenbaum after Atlantic Express, i'm thinking Bioshock 3 will involve an unknown character aiding her (using plasmids as well as conventional weapons) and that character has to defend her and the Little Sisters from Splicers after she talked with Subject Delta. Vae Infectus 19:34, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Your both wrong. In the Minerva's Den DLC, she is trying to find a way to reverse splicing. At the end, she and the protaganist, Subject Sigma, escape together and she turns Sigma back to a normal human, proving that her cure works.

Death?
Who says you can kill her.and how can you?! Delta daddie 14:21, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

It's a glitch. You have to kill the doctor before Tenembaum shoots him. Check it out on youtube: "How to kill Tenembaum" I don't think that glitch works on the PS3 version, at least not for me...Ant423 14:31, March 4, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

Wouldn't she be....
Wouldn't she be mother of the little brothers too? I believe she would be if the little brothers weren't removed frome the series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Naruto fan 6 (talk • contribs) 02:08, 2010 April 17. Please remember to sign your posts with ~.


 * I would assume so, if they whern't cut. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091201175140/bioshock/images/thumb/f/f7/80.png/20px-80.png  El Ammo Bandito, "¡Yo amigo!"  03:16, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Think about the chain of events: I am fairly sure the Little Sister program in Persephone was only started when Sofia Lamb was in power (with the help of Edward Grimes). Before Lamb came to power the experiments on Little Sisters were centered in another place, Point Prometheus... so the creation of the Little Brothers in Persephone would have been many years after Tenenbaum had abandoned the program. I think the Little Brothers were solely Lamb's creation, because she was experimenting with creating new gatherers but she didn't have Tenenbaum's experience or intuition that only girls would work. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 03:41, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * So i'm a little confused, where there or where there not, Little Brothers?? http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091201175140/bioshock/images/thumb/f/f7/80.png/20px-80.png  El Ammo Bandito, "¿Usted amablemente?"  03:47, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * They were just an idea that didn't get much farther than the concept art phase in development. I was just speaking hypothetically. ~<font style="font-size:105%" color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 04:15, April 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, yes. That's what I believe, too. Looks a lot like Sofia's program, and it failed. ~<span title="Never harmed a kitten... Just cats!" style="cursor:crosshair"><span style="border-bottom:2px dotted green; border-left:4px double green; border-right:4px double green; border-top:2px dotted green"><font color="#008800">Ṃ <font color="#009900">ᶒ <font color="#00aa00">ɠ <font color="#00bb00">ą <font color="#00cc00">§ <font color="#00dd00">ɔ <font color="#00cc00">î <font color="#00bb00">é <font color="#00aa00">ɳ <font color="#009900">č <font color="#008800">ę   <font color="#ff0000">{ <font color="#ff4400">t <font color="#ff8800">al <font color="#ff4400">k <font color="#ff0000">} 04:23, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Tenenbaum a Splicer?
So upon replaying Bioshock 1 after finishing the second one, I can't help but notice that Tenenbaum looks an awful lot like a Leadhead Splicer in Bioshock 1. The images I've seen in this article only seem to further that impression. Does anyone else think her in-game model (not the diary picture) looks inaccurate? I swear she didn't look like that the first time I played this...--99.162.107.186 04:08, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looking into it further, it would appear her model was derived from the Lady Smith splicer model. Perhaps this could be added to the Trivia? I noticed that Atlas was listed as being based on the Wader splicer model, so this wouldn't be the first time it's been mentioned. It'd clear up questions concerning the radical difference between the two games.
 * It has been mentioned Michael Ryan  Talk  05:45, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Minerva's Den Ending
Hi there!

I just wanted to mention that the ending of Minerva's Den (Tenenbaum leaving for the surface with ADAM and Subject Sigma) isnt't as mysterious as the article states.

It is actually explained quite clearly in the Audio Diaries A Possible Solution and Partnership with Porter.

Is it alright for me to add?

Inspiration for her character
I found this old interview with Ken Levine on ShackNews: http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=539&page=2

It it he mentions:

He might have been talking about Rosalind Franklin. Any ideas for who he could have meant? ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 00:30, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Resembalance to the Little Sisters...
Is it me, or does the look alittle like the Little Sisters? Like her nose and eyes.

72.218.73.69 21:58, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmmm...
Don't you think Tenenbaum looks like the way Ayn Rand describes Dagny Taggart in Atlas Shrugged? I mean they describe her as having a full head of long, brown hair, thin lips, soft eyes, etc. Also, very pretty by the way she sounds. Am I right? Mr Bio Shock <span style="cursor: wait;" title="Evolve today!"> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/thumb/a/a1/Physical_Tonic.png/15px-Physical_Tonic.png 21:16, April 18, 2011 (UTC)

Fontaine?
What does Fontaine mean when he makes the statement about Tenenbaum not being as she appears? What's her secret agenda? if there even is one.

New informations by Ken Levine
Ken Levine said on his Twitter many things about the early life of Tenenbaum : http://twitter.com/#!/IGLevine. She was of course Jewish, and she grew up in Belarus. Her father was German.

Could it be considered "canon"? It's the creator/writer of Bioshock after all, who said this.

He said also: "I actually have an unpublished bit of prose about her on the train from Minsk to auschwitz."

VRP Rockstar 12:03, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well it is a 'word of god' - something the person behind the story wrote so it should probably be considered canon. My personal opinion on this whole matter is that it's bullshit and doesn't really make sense if you look at how Tenenbaum acts and talks (German), is treated or described by other characters (called Kraut). If I were her I'd probably not want to be called Kraut if I'm only part German at a time after WWII.
 * Funny thing is that I know a few people that already doubt if it's logical and two of them (and me) are from Germany. Most of the doubt is based on her style of talking, using lots of German words where she would probably use Belorussian ones. Especially if you're angered or not comfortable you tend to slip into your mother tongue when speaking. Also Belorussian Jews were usually killed and not deported. And of course the chance to survive in Auschwitz is really... well small. If you didn't happen to have a twin, be useful to experiment on, or able to play an instrument (for the prisoner's orchestra) you were screwed. I can't help but doubt that they let a fragile sixteen year old survive because she might later develop into a "Wunderkind". (Also that part in the novel about her father being deported from Belarus before the war by Nazis is nonsense because 'before the war' would be pre-1939 and Narzis were first close to Belarus in 1941.)
 * But in general: Levine is the head behind the story. If he says she's from Minsk, she's form Minsk, no matter if it actually makes sense or not.......... The Sanity Assassin 12:18, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * I read again the declarations of Ken Levine: He never said she was actually born in Belarus, but just grew up in, so this may have some sense. Maybe her father learned to Brigid the German language in Belarus, because they fled Hitler's Reich... But I prefer to await the opinions of other fans...
 * VRP Rockstar 13:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, seeing that this wiki already has plenty of "word of god" information, mostly relating to what Jordan Thomas has said about BioShock 2 in the 2K forums, (Such as the Little Sister with Mark Meltzer being Cindy, and not just a random sister) I would say that we include this information along with the based canon from the game, altohugh with a reference of course, since word of god is a common way to obtain new information.--Fijure 15:37, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Any other suggestions before we include this information?
 * VRP Rockstar 23:21, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * For future reference, here are the tweets where he mentioned the information:
 * http://twitter.com/#!/IGLevine/status/98985077245095936
 * http://twitter.com/#!/IGLevine/status/99008101998542848
 * http://twitter.com/#!/IGLevine/status/99006216222683136
 * http://twitter.com/#!/IGLevine/status/99009400244666368
 * ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 14:59, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Well how would it be written in the article? As "Trivia"? It's only my personal view, but I can actually imagine her being born in Germany but later raised in Belorussia as the Nazis take over the control and her father flees with her. She would be at least 8 years by then (1933), making it possible that she already spoke German fluently. Also her mother is never mentioned. Shouldn't that fact be mentioned as well? She could have either died by her birth, a bit later due to a sickness, be killed by Nazis or simply left them. The Sanity Assassin 17:16, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and added the info into the article. I also removed the date of birth from her character infobox, since that was speculation. As for her mother, there's no need to mention things that are unknown. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 00:10, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Not sure if the birthplace should actually be changed to Belarus, since Levine only said that she is from Belarus but not born in Belarus. Could just be me being meticulous but still. And now I'm wondering how high the possibility actually is that she was taught the German language when she was born and raised in Belarus, especially since the two languages German and Belorussian are completely different. (And to speak a language fluently you need a few people around you able to speak it, I'd say) Maybe it could be mentioned differently? The Sanity Assassin 00:51, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally, when a person says they are "from" a certain place, I would assume that's their point of origin, i.e. they were born there. As for her learning German, I don't claim to know anything about Belarusian history, but a quick look at Wikipedia shows that Belarus was occupied by German forces during World War I, and a large population of Polish families also settled within the country. So it's conceivable that Belarusian citizens would have frequent contact with people of other languages and nationalities. In this day and age it's not uncommon for worldly-wise people in Europe to learn more than one language as a result of such frequent contact with neighboring countries, so I'd guess there was a similar multilingual tendency then. ~<font color=#006622>Gardimuer  <span title="Evolve today!" style="cursor:wait"> <font color=#33CC66>{ ʈalk } 01:37, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well Minsk itself was under German occupation for... one single month, then Belarus tried to become independant only to get a Russian occupation and it became a Soviet Republic (shortly after Andrew Ryan and his father left). The Sanity Assassin 02:25, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Year of birth
Given that we now know that she was deported from Minsk to Auschwitz... the year of birth should be changed, if we assume that - as earliest possibility - she was sixteen years old when she arrived in the camp.

The whole of Belarus was completely taken over by Nazis at the end of August 1941. That means she was probably transported to Auschwitz around August or September 1941 (or a bit later). If we subtract 16 years this would mean she was actually born around 1925. (This would make her 35 years old in BioShock and 43 in BioShock 2) The Sanity Assassin 17:08, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I did the math, too.

If she said that she was in the camp when she was 16, the latest she could have ended up in Auschwitz was 1944. Subtract 16 from these following dates (1941, 1942, 1943, 1944) and she couldv'e been born anywhere between 1925 to 1928, just like Assassin said. Mr Bio Shock <span style="cursor: wait;" title="Evolve today!"> http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/bioshock/images/thumb/a/a1/Physical_Tonic.png/15px-Physical_Tonic.png 23:35, August 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * After watching a documentary about Auschwitz I could determine the year more closely. Only two doctors come into consideration to be her mentor. Carl Clauberg (cruel sterilization of women) and Josef Mengele (genetic experiments). And well, since only Mengele did experiments based on Genetics, it's probably him that was her mentor. He arrived in Auschwitz in May 1943. Doing the math again we get the year of birth 1927 or 1928. This makes her 30/31 in Bioshock and 40/41 in Bioshock 2 (Damn she looks old...) -- The Sanity Assassin 14:55, September 9, 2011 (UTC)