Talk:Alpha Series (Big Daddy)

They can be hypnotized with the Hypnotism 3 plasmid! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.38.56.198 (talk • contribs) 05:22, 2010 February 11. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Picture

Can we get a picture of the beta concept art of the alpha series where they were more nasty looking? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gior (talk • contribs) 18:50, 2010 February 21. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Got one! Bioshock123 20:39, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Why not in BioShock?

After i killed one, i saw their left arm partially exposed, plus did ALL the alpha series' little sisters die/freed, in that case, they all failed. There isnt any alpha series in Bioshock.Sub-scorpion 04:06, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, how come we never seen any Alpha Series in BioShock. Since they were the prototypes of BDs and Bioshock took place before Bioshock 2 then they should appear in BS1. Registered contributor 02:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

The same can be said of anything yet to be designed or implemented in an installation of a series taking place in a familiar location. Irrational likely just hadn't come up with the concept at the time, quite simply. SteveZombie 03:58, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think why BioShock didnt have Alpha Series. Its because they only wander through the halls of Persephone and Fontaine Futuristics. Registered Contributor ® 06:50, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well, there could be two resons. One: being overly aggressive, they may have been confined to certain areas, with said areas locked down to prevent them from escapeing or someone letting them out. The reason for this is because they have no purpose, they cannot protect other little sisters and are very aggressive, possibley causeing havoc as they blast random people away due to their insanity. This would be a problem which may have caused them to be locked up, as it would cost alot of resources to hunt them down and kill them. Later S. Lamb may have found a way to control them, either by pherimones, W-Y-K effect, or something else. This may explane them fight along side Rapture family splicers and Gil ALexander being able to have them defend himself. Supporting this is that many of their dead and Living can be found in cages, such as in Gil's lair and when Gil make syou a "contestant" to his "Game" show.

Second reason: Notice that throughout the bioshock games, levels seem to feature only one kind of big daddy, i.e. Bouncers in Medical pavillion, Rosie's in Neptunes Bounty, and Rumblers in Siren alley. This seems to suggest that various Big Daddies prefer (Or are Limited to) certain areas (<- Speculation). Thus Jack may have never passed through one of their areas. (From a game mechanic point of view, this is to make the game challengeing, as Rosie's in close range are weaker, as are Bouncers in an area with lots of high places where they can't reach you.)

NOTE: This is Speculation and do not confuse this as fact.

'CR8ZY-Ar@B"Dancin' on Glass."' 02:49, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Actually in the Plasmid Theatre, the Alpha Series isn't behind a cage, but is behind a railing/barricade, which before the war was probably used to lock up the theatre at night, and for the game was to stop you just going to the signal relay and to make you go the long way. Engineer2412 21:12, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Sinclair

I nabbed a screenshot of Sinclair during his time as an alpha series for an msn display picture, but looking at it, he has an Omega symbol where you have your Delta symbol, it's a pretty large screenshot, shall I upload it? --Necrosis103 13:57, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

By all means go for it. An actual image is the one thing the article needs. SteveZombie 14:22, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Why not? Take a picture of Augustus Sinclair as Subject Omega. Vae Infectus 17:22, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Try putting that picture on the Augustus Sinclair page.Bioshock123 02:14, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thing hanging from their helmet

What is that thing hanging on the front of the Alpha Series body? Bioshock123 02:12, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe a weight, possible because they where too light (Due to less armor and huge air tank that rises) so they need one (Possible made of lead) to keep them rotted to the sea floor. CR8ZY-Ar@B"Dancin' on Glass." 02:49, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Natural Camouflage

The article currently claims that Natural Camouflage doesn't work on Alphas.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is possible to hide from an Alpha using the NC tonic. Usually when you encounter an Alpha, you probably passed a point where they're scripted to appear, so you're moving and hence not invisible. However, if they are summoned when you are standing still, they wont be able to see you. This happens a few times, for instance, in Fontaine Futuristics, when Gil sends out Alphas.

I personally don't think this distinction really needs to be made. I'll remove the claim without replacing it. Kryteria 19:13, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

im the one who put that there. i was standing still when it was summoned and it still came for me. GeneralOwnage55 The Message Box 17:50, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that when any enemy is alerted to your presence and your in their line of sight, you won't go invisible, as for the Alpha Series, I have camped in the water in the stairwell in Fontaine Futuristics (right after you deal with Gil when he tells you to "go clean the bathrooms") and have watched them run around looking for me. Also in Peresephone, I did the same thing, watched a Alpha run around the corner and started killing some splicers. If the Alpha Series has already spotted you though, they will know where to look to find you, I need to test it some more but it seems that once an Alpha series has spotted the player and has their 100% attention they seem to "lock" onto the player, making it impossible to hide from them.

Drill Fanatic 11-5-2010

Did some more testing, if they don't see you first then they can't find you, however I had an incident in the one area where Gilbert Alexander is. The area where you go to get one of the flowers where a dead Alpha Series is (looks like a shower) and are sealed inside with what appears to be either steam or some freezing agent. Even though I was standing still, an Alpha Series still rushed me and gave me a headbutt, it seems the Alpha Series in this particular spot either scripted to attack you or is glitched. I had Natural Camoflage active when it attacked me.

Drill Fanatic 11-22-2010

Deltas on ennemy Alpha Series ?!

I don't know if it is because of my computer, but I never seen the letter Delta on any Ennemy Alpha Series' hand, so why this in the trivia section ? => "All of the Alpha series have Delta on the back of their hands, with the exception of Sinclair". Please confirm. Pauolo 19:23, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

It must be your computerMichael Ryan_Talk 22:34, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Can you take a screenshot for me so I'll be sure of that, please ? Pauolo 22:36, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to see a picture as well. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 23:59, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Its because Irrational never had time to design a different model for every Alpha Series the player encountered, so they just decided to use one model, the player model with some modifications - 16807 Compunctious Transgression

Glitch: Unstoppable Alpha Series

Hey guys just last night when I was heading to the second pediactric ward in persephone something really weird happened. Just as I was going through the door an Alpha series popped out of nowhere jumped over the blaony completely ignoring me and started attacking Eleanor. I thought that she could handle it but the fight was taking a while(5 minutes it should have been dead by know) so I jumped over the railing to see what was going on. I tried all my plasmids on it you can't freeze it you can't set it on fire or hypnotize it and it does not have a health bar. I tried killing for like an hour (when I say me I meen Eleanor tried to kill it while I whatched from the other side of the room). I think this should really be on the trivia. Come to think of it wasn't there a glitch like this on the first game? - Ohshizim15 7:40pm 4/4/2010

The thing about glitches is that they are often just one-time events that never happen again. If you can duplicate the glitch or find other people who have experienced the same thing then it would be worth putting in the article. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 17:46, April 5, 2010 (UTC)

I tried recreating the conditions for the glitch to appear and this is how you do it. you jump off the balcony before you enter the first pediatric ward and send Eleanor after the alpha series that will be standing at the far end of the hall to the ward. Do not enter the door leading to the ward or the Alpha will disappear when the doors close like it is scripted to. Just throw the Eleanor plasmid towards the door and it will come charging out and target only Eleanor until she disappears. Resummon her and it will target only her again, I highly recommend it since Alphas have the greatest damage output in the game and this one won't die your going to die quickly if you don't use the plasmid. If you want to try it out you can, it took me a while to realize that I had to use the Summon Eleanor plasmid for the Glitch to appear again. Now this glitch happened more than once so I REALLY think that it should be in the Article.-Ohshizim15 5/19/2010

Cool. It is probably caused by messing with a scripted event. You can put it in the article if you want. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 20:31, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

No Degradation?

Has anyone noticed that a load of Alpha Series encountered in Inner Persephone show little to no degradation and look almost identical to Delta? Should we put on the article? I doubt it, i was just asking.

Sorry that was mine. Delta daddie 03:10, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Removed Trivia

About Alpha Series concepts

In a quote from Deco Devolution by Colin Fix, Senior Character Concept Artist, 2K Marin, "If you were to encounter one of the Demo Daddies in one of the levels, you would think 'oh man, this thing is going to kick my ass.' This thing is more unpredictable. 'I might be able to take that thing out but I don't want to go up to it because it's kind of fucked up looking.'" This quote also reveals that Alpha Series are nicknamed Demo Daddies by the developers.

I feel this quote is still relevant, although I guess it doesn't work how I stated it. I'd rather keep it around somewhere for later use. ~Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę _{{ talk }} 15:35, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Removed

Ehh, why is it completly gone? really! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HunterMan51 (talk • contribs) 19:39, 2010 April 12. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

OMG

OMG!!! They play DEAD! I was walking through fontaine futuristics, the section with Gil's tank and one of the Alpha Series just popped up! I thought the thing was dead! It certainly looked dead!-Ohshizim15 8:41pm 6/8/2010:o

Delta Model

Hey I was playing inner pheresphone, and killed an alpha series. I looked at its hand to check if the trivia saying they don't have symbols on their hands was true. I then saw a faded Delta symbol. I will try to get a photo soon, but at the moment check for yourself.(This is only on inner pheresphone) I guess this means that the Alpha series in that level are Deltas model except a different colour(Deltas suit is bronze and blue, the alpha series including subject omega are a dark brown). This also brings up that Deltas character model will hold his diving knife when standing still, as seen with the decoy plasmid and two Alpha series in inner pheresphone standing still in biohzard chambers. Again I will try to get pictures so for now feel free to check for yourself. The symbol is faded on the Alpha series but its there. Grand Daddy July 3, 19:09, 2010 (UTC)

Delta's character model WILL not hold the knife when standing still, as seen by the shadow. He will hold whatever weapon and plasmid he is wielding and stand in a ready position. However, this does not mean that an "idle" animation was not created of delta depicting him dalliantly standing around and holding his knife. Good catch though i'm gonna look for those two idling big daddies in persephone because that sounds like it looks pretty awesome. Mrbear420 06:51, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Page's name

This is only a suggestion. Since Delta and Sigma's names appear on this page as "Notable Alpha Series Members" and considering the fact that they are not enemy Alpha Series, It would be more appropriate to call this page "Alpha Series (Big Daddy)" or "Alpha Series (Big Daddies)". What do you think ? --Pauolo 12:06, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Head Shots

is it just me or do the alpha series in Minerva's den have a better damage ressitance to head shots then they had before. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.196.58.201 (talk • contribs) 13:35, 24 September 2010 (EST). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

Well aren't you putting me in an awkward situation? I mean, I'm sure you don't have better damage resistance to headshots than some guy in a metal suit, but what if they don't have better resistance than before, either?

But in seriousness, they do seem a bit stronger than before. Good thing, too. We need more difficulty. ~Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę _{{ talk }} 18:48, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Stop being ignorant

I dont know who it is but someone is being extremely ignorant. I tried to edit the article three times where it says that alpha series have been lol spliced, by saying that it is wholly conjectural to assume that, as the alpha series that are seen with the rips in their suit are over ten years old. The only alpha series that are new are subject delta and augustus sinclair, and as their suits have NO rips in them, then there is no factual basis for saying that the alpha series were spliced to the point of having the skin seen through the rip of the alpha series encountered in the game. I guess someone's just mad insecure and they dont want people tampering with their article. But i dont really care anymore after writing this i just had to get that out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.152.58.164 (talk • contribs) 18:17, 2011 April 11 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

First thing, if you want to be understood, register on the wiki so it would seem more honest than just doing edits when you want with leaving for only mark your IP adress. Second thing, sign your posts in the talk pages, that's what we all do when we want to say something. Also, as explained by MegaScience, one of the most respected members on this wiki and the one who undid your last edit, this is pure speculation. We've got a policy about that on the wiki, and every editors are aware of that when writing an article. --Pauolo 19:15, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

To address your claims, we already know that all Alpha Series are spliced in unstable ways (see the Audio Diary "Alpha Series"), and we know that splicing causes degradation over time ("ADAM Explained"). You only have to put two and two together to understand that the deformities in the Alpha Series came from splicing, the same way the deformities in the "Splicers" did. On the other hand, adding statements about the difference between "old" and "new" Alpha Series would be speculation, since we don't know what Delta, Sinclair, or Sigma look like under their suits. For all we know they look just as misshapen as the other enemy Alpha Series.

Furthermore, the "trivia" you added was entirely speculation and included words like "may be" and "can be greatly inferred." Please see the BioShock Wiki:Content Policy and BioShock Wiki:Trivia Policy. If you think part of this article currently contains speculation, please let us know so we can discuss it and improve the section. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 20:28, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

People always edit and put their speculations in articles. I admit that when I was new to the Wikia, I put logical speculations of unanswered questions throughout the game in certain pages. Sometimes people add information that seems redundant. For example, someone added in Alpha Series article that Delta and Omega(Sinclair) would still look like a "regular" human with no deformations. I removed it out because nobody has seen them without their amor, and there are alot of people who think Sinclair was rushed through Alpha conversion in a hurry; If you think about it, Alpha Series conversion doesn't seem very long to take(inject heavy doses of gene splicing tonics and ADAM, and the right formula for the Alpha Series conversion, and presto, you're finnished!) The only reason most people believe this is because he still has the ability to speak(although his voice sounds just a little distorted and mechanized), and even Sinclair himself tells Delta that Sofia left him his "tongue" to torcher the bomb codes out of him. Even one of the help captions/objective caption when you have to find the code to get to him in the tower cleary states "What little is left of his human-self", meaning he is heavily spliced just like Delta, Sigma, or any other Alpha Series for that matter. People really have to stop placing those unrealistic facts in the articles. Splicers like the Brutes and Spider Splicer(Crawler model)have the ability to speak cleary and they're spliced. Heck,even Gil Alexander as "Alex the Great" can talk, and look what he turns out to be!Space Pirate Commander 21:17, April 11, 2011 (UTC)

OK first off I'd like to apologize for not having a username registered or anything like that and i tried to still sign my posts with my universal wiki name (mrbear420) but i guess i forgot. I do understand the way things are done on wikis and once again i do apologize for not creating and account to have a signature. As for my trivia post, inferring doesn't mean speculation (according to the dictionary it means "to conclude from EVIDENCE or PREMISES); I used an extremely basic knowledge of science to understand that if there is a breach in an atmospheric diving suit, then the suit is decompressed and therefore loses its original function of keeping a body pressurized. Once again, i don't understand how this is speculation, as it seems more like someone simply saw the word "inferred" and ignored the rest of the statement based on a misconception. Now, it still stands and despite what any of you have said, the only alpha series that have had their actual bodies revealed are the ones who had been rampant for 10 years. Now i wasn't saying that the alpha series weren't physically altered, hell, one look at their arms in comparison to their body clearly shows that they are, and if i did it was probably human error on my part. I was simply stating that their is no concrete proof that the alpha series have physical deformities such as the the dermal "bumps" seen on many splicers. In fact, if one looks at the splicers that attacked delta in the opening cut scene, it can be seen that they suffer from none of the physical deformities that the splicers encountered in game have. This is clear evidence that the physical degradation of every enemy encountered in the game is simply a byproduct of time, not the initial splicing. I don't draw grand assumptions on "what ifs", i simply examine the facts and form educated postulations. Sincerely, MrBear420 (05:16) April 12th, 2011

As solid as your postulations may be, you need to back up your assertions with concrete facts, as opposed to inferring them from other statements. That's our wikia policy.

Also, to answer your other points, the Alpha Series cannot be separated based on their age, as they all possess common characteristics (their suit, powers, tendency to go insane, etc). Therefore, if they presented physical deformities after running rogue for ten years, they'll also have them at the moment of their creation. This can also be logically backed up by the fact that they don't receive any more ADAM (contrarily to the Splicers), and thus that they only undergo one mutational process. Thus, since we can see skin bumps on their arms when fighting them, we can assume this applies to all Alphas.

Although it's obvious that the Alpha Series' suits are depressurized, it's not particularly noteworthy. We try to give out as much information as possible in the trivia, but facts that are easily derived from others such as "Alpha Series' suits are depressurized", "Sofia Lamb's ideology is diametrically opposed to Andrew Ryan's" or "Subject Delta ia a man" are generally not mentioned as they are redundant. Hope that clears things up.

You know, if you've got a wikia username you can simply sign in and continue the conversation while registered. That way we'll know who we're talking to. --Willbachbakal 11:54, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

Personally, I disagree that the Alpha Series were deformed from the moment of their creation. Looking at the Alpha Series concept art from Deco Devolution, it seems to me that the developers wanted to show the Alpha Series we see in the game as intensely degraded over time. Of course, we can't know for sure, and that is why the history part of this article currently doesn't make any claims about time relating to the deformities. The article states that their splicing caused the deformities, which would be true regardless of whether they developed immediately or gradually. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 15:34, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

It really isn't redundant to state that the alpha series can no longer survive underwater as their suit has been breached. It would be redundant to say that if it was already mentioned on the page, but since it is not then it isn't redundant. I can see that I cant convince you guys that there is no concrete evidence that the alpha series are physically degraded in addition to having an altered physical structure, which is funny considering that you guys are asking me for concrete evidence, yet nobody in this debate has provided ANY concrete evidence (myself included, as I was the one who was debating that there is nothing to back the claim that all alpha series are physically degraded). Only Gardimuer really understood what i was saying. But i concede because this is going nowhere. P.S. Im mad dumb; i forgot that wikia accounts function universally. Mrbear420 20:56, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

Taking into account the fact that Alpha Series are the only Big Daddies created for the sole purpose of protecting a single Little Sister, which would prevent them from leaving the buildings in Rapture in any case, it's not particularly noteworthy to assert that they can't survive underwater since they don't go outside anyway. So far, only two Alpha Series, Subjects Delta and Sigma, have been known to venture into the ocean, and that was only because they were forced to do so to accomplish their respective missions. I think Gardimuer's right in that the Alpha's deformities didn't spring up instantly, but my point still stands: since all Alpha Series go through a similar mutational process, it's safe to assume that if one of them presents deformities, they all do. Now, if you had read carefully I had provided evidence in my previous post: if you look at the Alpha Series model, whether in-game or through screenshots, you'll see that their left arm is exposed, and that there are dermal bumps on said arm. Therefore, through proof by recurrence, all Alpha Series (who in addition all have the same model) have dermal bumps, or at least similar deformities. QED. --Willbachbakal 22:26, April 13, 2011 (UTC)

So by your rationale... its not particularly noteworthy so say that an ostrich has wings, because they never use them? Of course it is noteworthy to say that they cannot survive underwater due to their depressurized suits. It doesn't matter if they never go underwater, the fact of the matter remains that they had to ability to, and the fact that this ability has been robbed is worthy of mention. If you want to look at it in another light, it can be noted as a form of juxtaposition with Delta himself; i.e. "Unlike subject Delta, all other alpha series encountered in the game cannot venture into the water due to the decompression of their suits." Now, there is still no evidence that all alpha series possess these bumps, because we have not seen the arms of subjects Delta and Sigma... i have no idea why you would assume that after many people jumped on my for presuming something. Also, like i said before... there is no data to support that Delta has the bumps on his arm... now getting back to my ORIGINAL point of me disputing the article saying that the Alpha series was spliced to the point of having the bumps (i feel like such a layman saying bumps so often, we should try to think of a word for the hive like shit that springs up all over a splicer's body), i have found concrete evidence that they were NOT in fact spliced to this point. In the part of Fountaine Futrisitics where Delta revisits where he was created, in the flashback you can see two scientists grafting the glove to his hand... and you can briefly see his uncovered forearm. Although it is INHUMANLY large at this point, it still does not exhibit any symptoms of deformity other than the bone size and muscle density increases. And willbackbakal... dude i wasn't arguing whether or not they ALL had it, i was arguing that they were not spliced to the point of having it initially as well as arguing the point that it arose through time on the unattended remaining alpha series not having maintenance. Mrbear420 06:38, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Bad analogy use there, a more proper one would be that saying ostriches would blend in less with the environment if you painted them blue is useless, since people don't usually go trekking in the savannah with a can of paint with the sole intention of coloring ostriches. Falling back to Subject Delta was also a bad move, because he is not only one of the only Alphas with their suit intact (and would, by your rationale, invalidate your otherwise correct statement that the Alphas' suits are decompressed), but also the only one to be running around in near-pristine condition, thanks to his resurrection. He's not exactly what you'd call a reference for other Alphas.

You seem to have fallen from trying to prove your point, to simply attempting to win the argument at all costs. Just because there is a possibility that lack of maintenance may be responsible for the Alpha Series' skin bumps (just as there is as much a possibility that they all suddenly got a nasty rash for no discernible reason), that does not make it worthy of consideration without evidence which, by your own admission, you have consistently refused to provide. On the other hand, we know that ADAM deforms the organisms it binds to and can cause, among other things, skin bumps, as can be seen on the Splicers. We also know that Alpha Series have been put under heavy Plasmid treatments, as shown by their spontaneous elemental bursts. Put two and two together, and hey presto. I think Gardimuer disproved that the deformities appeared initially already, so that point is moot. --Willbachbakal 18:12, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

Ok maybe that was a bad analogy... I'll concede that to a miscommunication on my part. What I'm trying to say is that since the big daddies were given diving suits that would allow them to travel on the ocean floor, then that means there was some amount of EXPECTANCY in the creators that the big daddies may have found themselves on the sea floor. Just like if rapture were a floating city they would likely be constructed with some sort of propulsion system (as seen in the big daddy equivalents in Bioshock infinte, and I'm not bringing that into the discussion in any way other than to cite an existence of cause and effect in terms of environment). Now, if the big daddies lose their ability to go underwater, it is as impacting on their abilities as it is if they were to lose the ability to aim their weapons; existing on the ocean floor gives the ability to dwell on the ocean floor intrinsic value. Painting and ostrich blue is fuckin dumb... i have no idea why you would do that... but giving an organism that needs to thrive at the bottom of the ocean the ability to withstand the abyssal pressure at the bottom of the ocean seems like a pretty GOOD fucking idea to me, eh? That's why i think it is worth noting that the alpha series can no longer survive in the ocean. it is a cripple to them on the level of the alpha series not being able to use plasmids, or losing the ability to store first aids and eve on their back. OMG dude. The ENTIRE TIME I've been saying that there is NO EVIDENCE to prove that ALL alpha series have that deformity... I've literally been repeating that every time. I said in my very first post; since the full range of alpha series are never seen, nor are the direct body's of sinclaire, delta, sigma, or the unknown big daddy of the protector trials, then there is no concrete evidence to assert in the article 'all alpha series have physical deformities due to splicing visible in the rips in their suit'. I even went so far as to compound this evidence with the fact that in the flashback delta gets in Fontaine futuristics where one can encounter Mark Meltzer as a rumbler, you can see a brief screen shot of doctors attaching a glove to delta's hand, with his bear forearm visible, devoid of any abnormalities other than its large size... Jesus dude im not trying hard to win the argument, if anything I've been trying to provide as much evidence as possible... Also, there's no need for your subtle level of disdain, my good sir...Mrbear420 21:40, April 14, 2011 (UTC)

It's not so much subtle disdain as bemusement as to why you are still trying to argue in this pointless debate, but sure. You seem to have ignored my point about the Alphas' suits: they were not meant to go out to sea, since they were supposed to be protecting their Little Sister who, likewise, had no reason to go walking across the ocean floor. The suit was there simply for reasons of continuity (all Big Daddies have suits) and gameplay (the seabed sections), and in terms of in-game lore there is nothing to suggest that Alphas were meant to go out to sea at their inception. Unless, of course, you have anything to back that up. Also, you say that not all Alpha Series have deformities, nor have gone through an intensive Plasmid treatment. Explain why. Find a counterexample, and/or give a good reason as to why some Alpha Series wouldn't be deformed while others are. The main reason they all are is this: some time after the transformation, they eventually suffer from ADAM's side-effects and develop deformities (as proposed by Gardimuer). Therefore, all Alphas suffer from deformities since they all went through the same treatment. --Willbachbakal 06:58, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

Getting back on the topic of improving this article, the article currently does not claim that all Alpha Series have deformities. Here is the relevant quote in the article:

“	Even the Plasmids and Tonics the candidates were spliced with made them unstable, as rips in the armor of Alpha Series encountered in Fontaine Futuristics reveal that their skin had become lumpy and grotesque.	”

This sentence states that splicing made the Alpha Series unstable (which is undeniably true) and it mentions that the deformities we see in enemy Alpha Series are an example of the instability. But it doesn't claim that all Alpha Series are unstable in the same way or that they are all equally deformed. As such, I don't think there is any speculation present, although I could see that the sentence might be easily misinterpreted, and possibly it could be rephrased.

About the notability of the Alpha Series suits being damaged: We know that at least some Alpha Series did spend time outside of the city from Gilbert Alexander's words in the diary A Father's Love- "We lost another of the Alpha Series Protectors today in testing. Somewhere outside the city limits, he simply vanished. For these men, Rapture has no walls." To me this suggests that the Alpha Series did spend time in the ocean as their testing for expected work, otherwise they would have been unlikely to wander off outside the city. As for the remaining Alpha Series, the enemy Alpha Series' suits in Inner Persephone are actually identical to Delta's, which means they would be just as capable of withstanding ocean pressure (disregarding the game logic of Delta's suit apparently never being punctured by bullets...) However, we could mention in the "History" section that the suits of many of the remaining Alpha Series fell into disrepair and developed rips that would make them unpressurized.

It's up to both of you. Does this sound reasonable? ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 05:52, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

The topic about how Subject Delta's bare forearm lacking dermal bumps actually has its flaw. The enemy Alpha Series has their forearm also exposed(doesn't feature bumps, just pale/gray and muscular), the dermal bumps are located near the exposed rist, and Delta's rist is completely covered by his gloves in the "Johnny to Delta Conversion Clip", so there's no telling whether he has them or not. I do however believe he would have some slight(NOT major, like Crawlers, Brutes, or the other Splicers encountered in BioShock 2)deformations like glowing eyes, lack of hair, muscular build, and pale skin due to him being contained in his suit and not seeing light(excluding when he removes helmet in the intro vid, which was 10 before the events of BioShock 2. Other than that, he is never shown to remove any part of his suit/armor again and any need to either.)Space Pirate Commander 01:55, April 18, 2011 (UTC) ~

Subject 001?

Okay so I need someone to clear this up for me. Now do we know why this alpha series we play as in the protector trials is labeled 001? I know its labeled on his wrist and I thought it was just a way of labeling it as player 1 but then I wondered if it was one of the previous three alpha series big daddies that were failures cause they couldn't be bonded to a little sister like delta (forth alpha series) was. Can someone please clear this up for me? Its kind of confusing me 75.135.92.255 23:18, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

The Protector Trials are pretty hard to fit in terms of in-game lore. Technically, if he were one of the the first three Alpha Series ever created he'd have a Greek letter on his glove, not a number. That said, he's not supposed to have a number in the first place. Then there's the problem as to whether every Big Daddy in every trial is the same, since he ends every mission with huge amounts of enemies on his back and starts with a radically different loadout.

Personally, unclassifiable as he is, I doubt he's one of Delta's predecessors. Gameplay-wise he has his own free will and can roam around different parts of Rapture without a problem. I think he's more of an excuse for cool Little Sister protection missions than a canon character. --Willbachbakal 00:02, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Actually disregard my question. I just played some of the campaign again and minerva's den and I noticed that subject delta and subject sigma have the same number on their wrist. You have to have decoy equipped in order to see it but its there. So i'm guessing he's still the unnamed (don't know if I spelled it right) alpha series? Idk what the number is for though but oh well. Personally i'd rather he be known as the unnamed alpha series cause I think its a good way for the player to immerse themselves as that big daddy. idk if that sounds weird but thats how I see it.75.135.92.255 06:48, December 24, 2011 (UTC)