Talk: Eleanor Lamb

Archives: #1

This talk page is for discussing improvements to the page "Eleanor Lamb".
	It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article. Please use our forum for these purposes. Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~) after each of your entries. Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. Do not edit other people's entries.
Please use our forum or personal blogs for discussion about related topics.

Combat Type

Shouldn't her combat type be Big Sister? Delta's and other characters pages have a combat type like Alpha series or Houdini splicer because they have been seen in combat. Why is there no combat type for Eleanor when we clearly see her fighting as a Big Sister?-Ohshizim15 6/5/2010 7:01 PM

What's up with her eyes?

When she talks to you through her her mind her eyes are blue but in the ending one eye is blue and one's red why? N00BHUNTER666 03:09, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Presumably because the designers overlooked it, probably because they did the telepath scenes and endings differently to save time.Dark Swarmlord 19:27, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Removed Diary: Delta being Eleanor's Biological Father

In the trivia section, it says that "Although her real father is never mentioned in-game, a removed message from Eleanor would have revealed that Delta was her biological father." I was wondering, does anyone have the audio and title for the diary? If so, could we make a page for it, like the other diaries? Assuming it's hidden in the files, that is; I have BioShock 2 for the xbox 360, so I can't try to find it myself. I love listening to the audio diaries (even if it is removed content), so I figured it was worth a shot asking about this, ahaha! Coonsley 08:31, March 24, 2011 (UTC)Coonsley

If I recall correctly, it was a radio message, not a diary. There are so many unused radio messages in the game files that we generally don't make transcripts of them. I don't have the files with me, so unfortunately I can't tell you anything about that specific message at this time. You could try asking MegaScience or Relight; both of them have explored the audio files. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 06:47, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, okay! I'll try asking them, then. I'm really interested in this tidbit. (:Coonsley 19:35, June 9, 2011

Yi Suchong daughter?

Jack is born in 1956

Fontaines quote in Olympus heights/ apollo square

"You think you're some kind of hero? I ordered you up from Suchong like a Chinese dinner: a little from column A, a little from column B"

sounds a lot like Sofia Lamb's quote from Fontaine futuristics

"She was not meant to have a father, Delta. She was to be an heir to my life’s work."

Suchong worked for the highest bidder and with the property assets that Lamb had it probably was a small

matter to arrange. Second how else would she get into Fontaine Futuristics unnoticed? There is scanners and cameras everywhere and a reception desk. Sofia Lamb did not start her own experiments until 1959 to 1960.

The audio diary To My Daughter indicates she already knew the gender and had plans to be her heir.

Shackled To The Great Chain has the quotes

"Until ADAM, the human animal was a slave to the gene... the inner Tyrant. Lust... greed... rage -- self obsession was etched into our DNA. "

"'But now, in theory, we can redraft the human blueprint."

This may clear up the issue of whether Delta is her father or not. A portion of her genes may have come from him but they may have come from several other sources as well. 

Possible Trivia

In G.I. Joe there is the character Serpentor which was formed by infusing a skilled warrior with the DNA and knowledge of history's greatest leaders (or tyrants) such as Napoleon and Julius Caesar. The purpose was to create the ultimate leader for their faction. Houdini25 (talk) 13:59, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Killing Eleanor

Hey guys, it says in the article about Eleanor that she can be killed only in the room where she gives you the plasmid but I found this to be untrue as I personally was swinging my drill at her throughout Outer Persephone and she eventually died and teleported away! Is it possible that this happens to everyone?Or just me?

p.s. Tested on ps3

90.222.15.231 02:34, July 27, 2011 (UTC)Phoenixstorms

Nope, it's normal. I've actually done it several times... But anyways, it's not counted a a glitch since you can use the Plasmid again (you've just depleted her health, which is why she "dies"). However, the operating room glitch counts since, well... it does weird things to the game. --Willbachbakal 02:43, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

== How?

==

208.102.217.45 23:24, October 27, 2013 (UTC)Dan M.

How will delta live in Eleanor?

will delta be like Aiden from Beyond two souls?

If not then what can he do in eleanor?

Just talk?

But he has a voice box only words he will be saying is ArgMoooN

Not 100% sure about this, but theoretically Eleanor has gained the memories, knowlege and experience of every person that has had their ADAM harvested, by all of the Little Sisters in Rapture. In the final cutscene Eleanor harvests Delta's ADAM therefore she will carry all of Delta's memories, knowlege and experience?

208.102.217.45 00:21, October 28, 2013 (UTC)Dan M.

---

Not necessarily 'all', we can say 'some' possibly as shown by the 'ghost stories' in BS1.  It actually may be only a small amount and random, and of dubious usefulness (memories maybe , but knowledge? experience? what happens when those things start to conflict/overlap?).  The Little Sisters didnt seem to gain much from it except confusion, and a 16-17 year old is not all that much better (if any age could be).   Sofia Lamb saw the basic effect (probably in her patients) and may have deluded herself in how far it could work (her idea of changing human nature sets her amongst the most crazy people in history).   The resulting insanity in Gil Alexander should have given her a clue. Testxyz (talk) 02:31, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Still daddies?

208.102.217.45 00:21, October 28, 2013 (UTC)Dan M.

In the ending are all daddies killed? (Includeing Delta)

But i got something eles to discuss, Could sisters Includeing Eleanor take DNA from Daddies and put it into the Vita-Chamber for the daddy to revive?

Like im saying If a Daddy dies and the daddy has it's sister with him can the sister transport his DNA to the vita-chamber to revive him?

---

No there could be alot more Big Daddies wandering about (and Little Sisters too).  Rapture is a large place and we saw only a small part of it in all the games conmbined.  Delta apparently is killed but its not certain (and he could yet be revived again as he was once already).

DNA might be only part of whats needed. Delta was a special case being a test subject for the Protector program and they may have had alot more research stuff  from him which made him more unique.  It also took Eleanors efforts to make it happen (and alot of help from Little Sisters). Testxyz (talk) 02:37, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Still Daddies (P2)

208.102.217.45 20:47, October 28, 2013 (UTC)Dan M.

Since ive got a Reply saying There is more Daddies wandering around.

I am asking that since rapture is a bigger place Would there be new daddies?

Well since there is more wandering around their Got to be new daddies?

===============================================

But what happends at the ending?

She takes Delta's ADAM and just sits on the edge of Rapture with "Most" of the sisters he rescued

But what happends next?

There got to be something good and bad to happend. Like for example One of the sisters Transport Delta's DNA to the Vita-Chamber and he Respawns but then Stuck in rapture.

Doesn't this kind of talk belong on the forums? It's mostly speculation anyway; while it's certainly possible Big Daddies wander around Rapture (as you can find many in both games even after rescuing/harvesting all the Little Sister), said Daddies probably don't have much purpose anymore. Key of Destiny (talk) 20:52, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

--

Remember they also repair the City inside and out (probably the reason Rapture is still there, to this day). Also they (BDs and possibly LS too) were made in more than one place and other people (in the city) may be making more elsewhere or takeover Lambs facility (now that she is gone). Testxyz (talk) 08:52, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Radio_Messages:_Persephone 17. The Least of These

"The other Sisters are made from me, in part. As they grow up in Rapture, I feel it all. When you were with the little ones, they trusted you as their Father, because of me. "

Made from her?  So they have been mutated with her DNA and are subject to the ADAM side-effects of tumors, deformations and insanity to turn into little ugly twisted messes, no longer so cute (the BDs dont care), as they walk around Rapture sucking the blood out of corpses, and maybe some living "sacrifices" on the Rapture Families altars ?

They could have made Bioshock 2 much darker than the mere lightless passages of Bioshock 1, but then who would be inclined to "Save" them then ??

Eleanor's Birth

I think that people are getting the wrong impression from the Eleanor's Progress audio diary. When Lamb says that her physical participation was "minimized" it is inferring that Eleanor was created In Vitro and grown in an artificial womb or that the embryo was implanted in another woman for the pregnancy. Not that Eleanor was someone else’s daughter. The adopting the unwanted daughter of a follower story is likely something cooked up to cover the fact that Lamb was never pregnant with Eleanor. sm

Is that even a fact?   I could be that Sofia was just uninvolved/detached emotionally (and less than childbirth happening like a Caesarian).   You later see Sofia murder (etc..) people and interact with her daughter in a very detached way and talk about it clinically. Testxyz (talk) 06:50, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

We know the technology for either transplanting an embryo or artificial womb exists in Rapture because of Jack. And how much more "uninvolved" could she be if didn't carry Eleanor to term or didn't carry her at all and just supplied the egg? Lamb said "My physical participation in her birth was... minimized, of course -- it is vital that I am unhindered by nature's crude bias." (Nuts, forgot to sign the first post as mine) sm --Solarmech (talk) 07:27, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

I think both a right. Sophia is a detached, emotionless mother and probably had a surrogate or In Vitro. The stuff about Eleanor being adopted is a perfect example of why the novel bugs me. It's hackish and dramatized, something I'd more expect to read in fan-fiction than the licensed BioShock novel by an acclaimed writer.

Unownshipper (talk) 08:40, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

I dont recall the Novel saying Eleanor was adopted.  But I read it last a few years ago.

Do 'acclaimed' writers actually do books about computer games (which is a bit different than game universe)?  The Novel actually fit the content fairly well with some filling in between  to give more motives and detail to the characters.

The writer John Shirley has 30 novels under his belt including stuff of Boarderlands, Batman and even a Holo novel. He also is a Bram Stoker Award winner with quite a few original novels under his belt. --Solarmech (talk) 16:36, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, so I think the above mentioned could qualify someone as being "acclaimed."

And to quote the "Behind the Scenes" point that started this discussion:

The tie-in novel Bioshock: Rapture heavily implies that Sofia Lamb is not actually Eleanor's biological mother, but instead secretly adopted the daughter of one of her followers, a young woman who had been forced into prostitution by extreme poverty and experienced an unwanted pregnancy by one of her clients. This is only ones hinted at in the game; in the audio diary: Eleanor's Progress, but it's still uncertain.

Unownshipper (talk) 20:16, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

-

That ^ ^ ^ is someones wiki statement that it 'implies'... not the actual text from the book referring to the subject.   

Just as 'acclaimed' might have different definitions for different people.   (ie - Mark Twain is acclaimed, and at the same time TekWars novels were 'acclaimed' by the people selling them...) and so also the judged authority of those who did the technical acclaiming. 75.36.139.95 03:58, August 14, 2014 (UTC)

An in-vitro with surrogate probably would be possible if their science by ~1951 was doing genetic manipulations with ADAM, though a artificial womb is quite a bit more complex (even Jack might have not gone that route).  With such possible,  creating as many Little Sister (slug hosts) as needed without the complications would have been done - unless the process was too difficult/expensive except for the few specific cases (and it might have added shock value to hear Lamb or Suchong refer indirectly to the repeated failures that took place ( ie- "Subject  J-17"  ) before achieving the goal). 75.36.139.95 04:15, August 14, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I think we have gotten to the point were the "Behind the Scenes" blurb about Eleanor being adopted can re removed? Anyone disagress? --Solarmech (talk) 14:17, August 14, 2014 (UTC)

Main character if there's a BioShock 4?

Does anyone else think it would be so cool if you could play as Eleanor if a 4th Bioshock comes out? Personally, I think it's the only way to tie the Rapture storyline, including Delta's, all together and end it for good. Also, in the good ending Eleanor says "for the world is about to change, and in our story, Rapture was just the beginning. Pretty sure that was a hint to a final Bioshock, and even if it doesnt come out soon it would be neat to play as Eleanor.

I think that it should have Bioshock/Bioshock 2 gameplay, but changed to just look kind of like Infinite's gameplay. Also, there are new Plasmids like Teleportation (since Big Sisters have that) and maybe modified Vigors and Burial at Sea Plasmids but changed a little. Since Minerva's Den was technically the last game in terms of the story (took place in 1968 and ended with Sigma being cured of his condition by the Thinker and Tenenbaum) i think it should involve curing the remaining Rapture citizens or even alternate dimension characters of Columbia infected with ADAM. 

That's just my opinion of what Bioshock 4 (if there is one) should look like. No one will probably answer since its been like 3 years since someone talked on a page, but if there is than let me know what you think of my idea. Thanks.76.171.143.251 02:55, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

Eleanor/Elizabeth should now be after the Luteces as THEY are the actual cause of the whole mess(though I doubt there will be any bioshock 4) 75.36.142.228 23:50, December 12, 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't really say its ENTIRELY the luteces' fault, since Comstock pretty much tricked them into doing what he wanted, and they arent responsible for the Rapture mess in Bioshock 1-2. Plus after the events of Infinite, the mess they 'caused' of Columbia is now wiped from existence. Still, a pretty good idea to keep in mind if Bioshock 4 ever comes out (which is very unlikely, but im still hoping it happens.) 76.171.143.251 07:07, December 13, 2015 (UTC)

Eleanor's Height

Eleanor is NOT eight feet tall. I know what the chart says, but that chart is a prop and clearly is not to scale. Someone who was eight foot tall always appears out of proportion compared to a average person and we don't see this with her. At *best* Eleanor is near six foot in height.

Chart is not to scale

--Solarmech (talk) 11:55, August 6, 2017 (UTC)

Well, because of the first-person view, hardly anything in the games is of proportional scale (...is that a term? Let's say it's a term) to the player character, so this should probably be taken with a grain of salt...

Jane St. Valentine (talk) 07:44, March 11, 2018 (UTC)

Why are you pressing a dead issue?

In the cutscene in the Quarantine Room, we see Eleanor Lamb alongside Sofia Lamb. We know Sofia's height from the quote by animation supervisor Jeff Weir in Deco Devolution artbook: "Lamb is sort of Nordic and very imposing. She's six foot tall and has more angular, almost masculine features..." Eleanor is less than or equal to Sofia's height; i.e. she's not eight feet tall. Again I ask why even bring this topic back up after the long period of silence? It comes across as pedantic.

Unownshipper (talk) 11:28, March 11, 2018 (UTC)

??? I only just found this post...

Jane St. Valentine (talk) 22:57, March 12, 2018 (UTC)

And I started this thread Aug of 2017. Basically in response to someone who kept insisting that Eleanor was 8ft tall and putting it on the main page. There is no reason to revisit the subject a half a year later. sm --Solarmech (talk) 00:09, March 14, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, okay, fair enough. I just wanted to add my two cents...

Jane St. Valentine (talk) 22:26, March 21, 2018 (UTC)

Eleanor's Age

There's been recent confusion and discussion about the year Eleanor Lamb was born. Here's the case as we've been discussing it:

A record of Eleanor's height.

МХК46 changed the previous birth which was "c. 1952" to "c. 1951" and has submitted the stadiometer in Grace Holloway's apartment at the Sinclair Deluxe as evidence. МХК46 has further pointed out that in Chapter 9 of BioShock: Rapture, it's stated that Eleanor in 1954 was 3 years old.

Solarmech has correctly countered that the BioShock: Rapture novel is non-canon and should not be considered a primary source of information here on the BioShock Wiki because of it's noted errors, inconsistencies. So while the novel can be discounted, the fact remains, that we have the stadiometer as a primary source from the game BioShock 2.

However, there are other issues related to it that we should be aware of. The last age recorded on it is "7 years," meaning Eleanor either was or became 7 while living with Grace. Below it are the heights at "6" and "5." From the audio diaries Arrangements and A Gift from Lamb we know that Sofia Lamb left Eleanor in the care of Grace just before the agents of Ryan Security came to take arrest her, but we aren't sure for how long that stay lasted as neither Failing Lamb nor Grace's in-person speech make it clear.

The same graph in Siren Alley.

I see one of two options as possible: Sofia started charting Eleanor's height at age 5 and when she sent her to live with Grace, she sent along some personal effects to make the transition easier like the framed bedside picture of Eleanor and herself and the stadiometer. Option two: Grace bought the stadiometer and started tracking Eleanor's height during the multiple years the girl stayed at her apartment. Of the two, I think the second option makes the most sense. That is until you see the EXACT SAME stadiometer besides Eleanor's bunk at the Little Sister's Orphanage in Plaza Hedone.

Did the creator's put less thought into the stadiometer than we thought? Did whoever snatched Eleanor from Grace take the time to gather some of the child's belongings for her so that she'd feel more comfortable in the Siren Alley orphanage (obviously not)? Did Eleanor actually spend years in the Little Sister's Orphanage and reach age 7 there rather than at Grace's (it's as likely a possibility as the alternative)? Did Eleanor recreate the chart from memory once she got to the orphanage (potentially, she's a very smart child)?

Regardless, there's the likelihood that Eleanor reached age 7 at Grace's, was kidnapped, spent a period of time at the orphanage, underwent the Little Sister process and was paired with Subject Delta all within the year 1958. So for now, I'd say we can comfortably accept МХК46's edit and put her birth as "c. 1951." Please share your comments, thoughts, and input.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:07, April 6, 2020 (UTC)