Talk:Jack

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I was under the impression that "Jack" was the Illegitimate son of Ryan then used by Fontaine and trained as an assassin.

At least thats what the Official Wikipedia Article says >_>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioshock —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.201.23.147 (talk • contribs) 07:59, 2007 August 28. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Age

• DO NOT QUOTE THIS INFO YET. It is by no means complete.

Response: Both answers are correct, I'm still trying to piece the puzzle together for myself. I know from the diaries that Andrew Ryan impregnated an 'entertainment' girl (you read her diary in Fort Frolic). Jack's mother then sold Jack, as an embryo, to Frank Fontaine. Jack was heavily modified genetically by both Dr. Suchong and Tenenbaum. Dr. Suchong was responsible for Jack's rapid development (also note in the good ending about 15-25 years have passed, Jack is an old man). Dr. Suchong was also responsible for Jack's mind control programming. I am still not fully aware of Tenenbaum's role in Jack's development, I assume that she was the one who gave Jack his memories, but I cannot verify this yet. I can verify that Jack's mother met Tenenbaum because she is mentioned in the diary.

Jack's actual age:

Although Jack's age is undetermined there is a diary by Dr. Suchong in Andrew Ryan's office that suggests he was able to grow a child that aged about 1 year every month (I need to take some notes from the game so DON'T quote this info yet). Jack has to be at least three years old, because Frank Fontaine disappeared and became Atlas in 1957. The oldest he can be is 12 years old because that is how long Frank Fontaine has been in Rapture. I highly doubt that Jack is 12 years old, my assumption is that he is closer to the age of 4.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.47.204.203 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 2007 August 28. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Should Jack be around 3, 4 years old, then his rapid aging must slow as he gets older, or else he would die like 3 years after the events of the game. And in the good ending, the little sisters are old enough to be married, so he must have lived longer than that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.116.36 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 2008 September 25. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

it said in the game he leaft the city at 2 so wouldent it be wrong to say he was born in 1958 if he was then what he just took a flight 1 day later to rapture —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crisscross1993 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 2009 November 16. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

If you look at the SITS timeline it might clear this up for you.

Jack was created by Suchong sometime before September 1958 (before Fontaine was "killed" by Ryan's men.) Suchong was still nurturing Jack and recorded the audio diary Baby Status when Jack was one year old, before Fontaine "died." Therefore, I think Jack was probably born in 1957, or 1956.

A radio message from Fontaine in the Proving Grounds says "I remember when me and the Kraut put you in that sub. You were no more than two." My guess is that he was smuggled out of Rapture before Fontaine went undercover, so he probably left in 1958... so that would mean he was born in 1956.

The events of BioShock happen some time in 1960.

From 1956-1960 is 4 years. So that's how you can tell Jack's age during BioShock. ~ Gardimuer _{{ ʈalk }} 23:20, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Pipe

The pipe mentioned in this article is not in fact the only pipe. I have found another in Fontaine Fisheries.-Sheedy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.183.180.84 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 2007 September 10. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Theory

Even though Tenenbaum's precise reasons of modifying Ryan's illegitimate son are quite cryptic, there are several points which can be hypothesized. Firstly, either Tenenbaum or Fontaine knew of Ryan's affair with Jasmine Jolie, and according to her audio diary, there was some delay in extracting her fertalized egg with Ryan's genetics, causing Ryan to find out and murder her. It could be speculated that the both of them (which were working together at the time, along with Suchong) were going to use Jack for a greater cause (either in science, development of ADAM, or perhaps to save Rapture somehow) as they all knew both hypnotic phrases given to Jack. Jack was indeed used by Fontaine to kill Ryan, and then later used by Tenenbaum to freely kill Fontaine (so his initial function was carried out). It's hard to figure out whether the trigger phrase makes Jack stronger or not. I find that this event, along with the metaphors given for the Little Sisters (read diary "Why Only Girls?" to get what I mean) were not fully developed plot-wise. - NocTurn 04:58, 2007 October 7

Voice

When Jack gets his voice scrambled at the end of the game, does it ever get changed back to normal? Because it would be really weird to go back to the surface/hold the world ransom with your voice sounding like a whale. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.202.116.36 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 2008 September 25. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

There's no evidence to support that his voice was changed back. Fontaine says that the voice surgery is irreversable, but there's a good chance that he's lying or just unaware of any corrective surgery. I doubt there was ever a need to reverse any of the Big Daddy augmentations in the past. RaptureWhaleFan 21:13, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I think it is reversable, Fontaine just said it's not just to scare Jack and I'm pretty sure that Tenenbaum won't allow her powerful new friend to sound like a constipated whale the reast of his life. 69.117.71.119 23:50, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

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Various surgery repairs were possible using ADAM, and we only got a subset of all the ones that existed (like which ones did Steinman use in his work?)     If you can grow a flamethrower arm you could rebuilt a vloice box (might not sound exactly the same).     Tenenbaum could have applied something like that to regenerate the needed tissue (and other things) before de-tonicing/deplasmidizing (or whatever else she did to get Jack closer back to normalcy and to avoid all the genetic turbulance which twisted Splicers who did a fraction of the Splicing Jack had done)

Testxyz 07:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

name

when did we find out jacks name —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ryal (talk • contribs) 02:59, 2009 January 25. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

I'm guessing it was at the beginning of the game, with the note on the present. OneMind 20:41, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah the note revealed in Ryan's office says "Dear Jack not open till *Rapture's coodirnates*" --Drsalvador 17:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

How do you know his name is Jack? i never heard it in game or anywhere except the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HunterMan51 (talk • contribs) 08:43, 2010 April 18. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

On the present in the airplane scene. The card on the box says "To: Jack". Plus, I believe the developpers refer to him as Jack. Ant423 13:58, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

In the first cutscene where he is on a plane holding the gift his fake parents gave him, a card on it says to Jack, so, there you have it. --Gearslover01 19:48, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Also, in the game files, there is an unused passport, revealing his name to be Jack Wynand.

Aperances

I would like to mention that I have added to this article concerning what I believe may be another photo of Jack found in central control on the wall that has the blood writing "would you kindly". Does anyone else agree with me? Also it should be noted that Jack can be seen entirly at one point in the Bioshock trailer just befor the camera zooms up into first person. I have one more question, is Jack's name ever mentioned in any piont other than on the note with the gift and in his Flash back? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.183.123.246 (talk • contribs) 08:21, 2009 April 28. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

bioshock trailer is not jack because he doesn't have the chain tattoos. The producers call him Jack. Other than the note, I can't seem to recall his name mentioned by anyone in the game. Atlas perhaps? nah 81.69.3.248 13:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

That is jack that you see in the good ending.Plus HE raised the Little Sisters on the surface --Ryan Pierce 18:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Bioshock54

Ryan

Andrew Ryan initially suspects that Jack is a CIA spook, then comes to the conclusion that he is not based on his behavior.

How come Andrew Ryan did not notice Jack's entrance to Rapture was with a bathysphere, while of course Atlas does. If he did notice, he could easily would have known Jack is his own blood, therefore playing a game with Jack (and Atlas). Also because of the vita chambers 81.69.3.248 13:16, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

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Also wouldnt have been logical to not leave a bathysphere at the surface (lighthouse) where it might be a bit of a clue of Raptures existance?? (Ryan is supposed to be paranoid, right?- well isnt this evidence he wasnt quite as paranoid as they tried to lay it on??) 

It that bathysphere  was sent there for his arrival (in case it wasnt normally left there) then that should have told Ryan his system wasnt as locked down and someone (Atlas?) was upto something      (I actually think the whole suicide thing by Ryan should have really been a setup against Fontaine/Atlas, where Ryan has figured it out and turned the tables (faked HIS own death)  -- its certainly would have been a more Epic Twist).

Perhaps for Bioshock 3 it will turn out that way.......

Testxyz 07:53, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Height

How damn short is Jack?! his head only comes to halfway up a health station & I measured him as 4 & a half tiles tall in one one of the bathrooms, the tiles being about a foot, so is Jack 4'6? Pararaptor 06:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out to you, that the Unreal Engine shows the camera at gun hight, as do some other games running on other engines. I noticed this too when playing the slot machines. Jack is probably a good 6 feet tall, it's just we experiance it at stomach level. Anonymous --98.108.152.32 09:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Jack is coolio --Ryan Pierce 14:22, September 16, 2009 (UTC)bioshock54

The camera is at Chest height, not stomach height wut. 69.254.53.223 16:05, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Guys, think about this for a moment. How could you "aim down the sight" of a gun from chest height? Also, when Jack puts on the Big Daddy suit, we're able to see through it as if it was through his eyes. Same can be said about Subject Delta and Subject Sigma. RaptureWhaleFan 20:34, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

It's an Engine thing, not a plot-related thing. - Drsalvador 02:38, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Aging speculation removal

Given the overwhelming evidence that Jack ages normally after the events of Bioshock 1, I'm requesting that the aging theories and speculation section be removed. Brainwasher5 21:48, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

You'd be surprised at how many people are still convinced that Jack only lives 4 years after his Rapture experience (At least outside this wiki). I have to agree with the evidence on this page though. Ant423 01:40, March 18, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

In the Good Ending, the Little Sisters that Jack raised as his own children are adults by the time he dies. If I had to guess, I'd say Jack lived around 30 years after the events of Bioshock. Timjames98 (talk) 01:18, February 6, 2016 (UTC)

Could someone list the "overwhelming evidence"? for me? What evidence, other than the cut scene showing adult little sisters, is there?--Cyberman TM (talk) 05:07, December 9, 2016 (UTC)

Well, that piece of evidence is the only one I'm aware of, but it's also the only one that is really necessary. TheLighthouse (talk) 05:11, December 9, 2016 (UTC)

Canon ending?

Given the events of Bioshock 2, is it right to conclude that the "good" ending to Bioshock is the canonical one? If the other ending(s) were true, wouldn't Jack be the leader of Rapture during the events of Bioshock 2? It's possible that his reign could be short-lived and that he ends up dead or "dethroned" before Delta's revival, but no one seems to make any mention of him ever being in charge. The splicers do revere him, but this could partially be due to Sofia Lamb's admiration of his story, and because of his defeat of Ryan. I'd say, given that no record of Jack being the head of Rapture exists anywhere in Bioshock 2, that the ending with Jack saving the Little Sisters and giving them the chance to live normal lives is the true ending. I'm sure that 2K wants to leave this open ended so that either ending can work in the storyline, but there's not much to support the "bad" endings of the first game in the sequel. --RaptureWhaleFan 01:45, February 16, 2010

I'd agree that the good ending seems to the canon one - it made more sense at the time, and it certainly fits better with the sequel, especially as I think in the Atlantic Express depot, you can overhear several splicers talking about Jack heading topside after saving a bunch of Little Sisters. That said, we do know from SITS that a nuclear submarine did visit the plane crash site sometime after the first game, as depicted in the bad ending, so presumably that particular element can be considered canon too.--BADavid 15:41, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

That trivia, I just undid, made no sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cloudyvictory (talk • contribs) 15:10, 2010 February 20. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

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Bad ending ??  Easy enough that Jack simply dies of something (Childhood disease maybe??) before he was able to do much  to the Surface or Rapture.    BTW, no SLBM submarine (Boomer) would EVER be sent to investigate a plane crash like that  (Cold war still on, surface ships are for that, etc... )  So sorry, no nukes for Evil Jack.

Testxyz 07:58, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Passport

Hey all, guess what I found?

I figured I would put this here for people to evaluate before adding it to the article. This image was found in the 0-Lighthouse.bsm file. If you don't believe me, have a look for yourself! EDlTʘR _•taIk• 00:08, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Wynand??? Wow. Hey! Jack is actually 23 years old (appearance-wise that is). I think most of us guessed Jack was around that age. I'm not surprised he's from Kansas since he apparently grew up on a farm. Good job finding that image Ant423 01:38, March 18, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

before we go and change every part on his page where it says his last name is Ryan we should consider that his last name on the passport is probably his name from the fake life that was programed into his mind.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bioshock123 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 2010 March 18. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Obviously it's a fake name, but technically, Jack doesn't have a last name. Wynand is clearly the official name that appears on Jack's documents. Andrew Ryan is Jack's father, but he is illegitimate, so the question is not "What is Jack's last name?" but rather, "Which last name is the more official one?" Also, which last name does Jack take when returns to the surface? Ant423 01:59, March 18, 2010 (UTC)Ant423

I would say Ryan is his name at the bottom of the ocean but not on the surface.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bioshock123 (talk • contribs) 02:06, 18 March 2010 . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

According to Jordan Thomas in this post on the 2K Forums Jack was never really meant to have an "official" name:

“	One of the hardest (and most debatable) choices we made was to honor the 'Shock tradition of not foisting a particular identity onto the player. Even "Jack" was arguably just a meaningless alias. While we know some people crave more information about who they are, what their backstory was, etc - we came down on the side of trying to reflect you, the individual, rather than telling you you're Nathan Drake, lovable rogue, you had a wife on the surface you'll never see, a dog named Parasite, and you prefer this particular brand of snuff.	”
—Jordan Thomas

If we do consider this image canon, then it means that all of the information in it was fabricated by Fontaine: a fake name, a fake address, even fake previous passport stamps to make it look like the passport had been in use since 1940 something (since Jack couldn't possibly have used it until 1958.) The only information in this passport that isn't a lie by Fontaine is the physical description of Jack. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 10:17, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

What in the world would make you think 'Wynand' for a last name? It'd have made more sense if Fontaine had used an anagram or something...Jerseygirl860 01:17, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

Some people think it is another Ayn Rand reference: a major character in Rand's novel "The Fountainhead" has the last name "Wynand" ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 00:56, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ahh... that makes sense. Thanks!Jerseygirl860 01:07, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

I might be an anonymous user (So discredit this if you wish), but considering Jack was an illigitimate child, wouldn't that make his actual last name Jolene after his mother? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.149.210.42 (talk • contribs) 14:20, 2010 September 8 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

Well, Ryan and Jolene weren't married, so I guess it would be "Jack Ryan" after his father. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.117.71.119 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 2011 March 6 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

Who created that passport ??

Look at the dated stamps on it   1950 ??    Born 1936 and in 1950 he would have to be 14 in that picture by the time of that one stamp, if not earlier??

Prop not meant for a closeup.  Meh

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.36.136.164 (talk • contribs) 05:44, May 6, 2014 (UTC). Please remember to sign your posts with ~~~~.

Why on Earth would you say that? Some designer put effort and attention into making this image. What makes you think you can disregard it so easily?

Unownshipper (talk) 07:46, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

Did we ever see a closeup of it outside of someone extracting it from the game files ??  If not then it wouldnt be worth fixing the dates on it since noone would see it.  (its possible its a photo copy of a real one that was modified with the picture which we could see and some of the name lettering and such you might just read. 

Removed trivia

(Moved the following speculation to the talk page as per the BioShock Wiki:Trivia Policy. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 17:48, June 14, 2010 (UTC))

• Taking his biological father into account names the character Jack Ryan, a character created by Tom Clancy with whom he shares several thematic aspects: both have an "everyman" quality about them, that of a tough but relatively normal person thrown into circumstances for which they are psychologically unprepared. Andrew Ryan initially suspects that Jack is a CIA spook, then comes to the conclusion that he is not based on his behavior. In contrast, Clancy's Jack Ryan actually is a CIA employee whose mission requires him to impersonate a naval officer. Both are forced to engage in gun-play underwater to survive.

(Moved more trivia speculation to the talk page. These two notes make sense, considering that the developers did take other inspirations from Rand's works, but this is still speculation until confirmed by the developers. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 23:13, June 20, 2012 (UTC))

• At the beginning of the game, Jack experiences a plane crash which leads him to find Rapture. This is similar to a scene in Atlas Shrugged, when the main character Dagny crashes her plane into a mountainside and wakes up near Galt's Gulch. Both crash their planes and both come to a hidden utopia (a former one, in the case of Rapture) with an emphasis on free economics.
• On Jack's wrists are tattoos of chain links. This could be a reference to him being part of Andrew Ryan's "Great Chain" and/or that it is symbolism of Jack's enslavement. The tattoos could also be explained as a reference to Dagny Taggart's chain link bracelet in Ayn Rand's novel, Atlas Shrugged. Dagny Taggart trades her diamond-studded bracelet for Lillian Rearden's "Rearden Metal" bracelet, hinting at Dagny's love for Lillian's husband Henry. (Note: the chain links on the right wrist are visible during the cut-scene where the first Plasmid is acquired, when the player injects an EVE Hypo, when the player is wielding the Wrench, while reloading the Machine Gun, near the end of reloading the Pistol and in the good ending).

Jack's (possible) wife

Look, I'm new to this, so I'm sorry if it looks all messed up.

Have you ever wondred who Jack's wife is? I think I may know. Wait for it- Tenenbaum. That's right, you read that correctly. Why do I think this? Well lets start with the basics. If you have eyes, you know that Tenenbaum is quite good looking, at least in her radio picture. I usually go by what most characters look like in radio pictures, since nearly every one in Rapture looks alike (thanks for that, devs >.<). Either way, you all know that you could win over Tenenbaum by saving Little Sisters as opposed to harvesting them. So if you kepp saving them, you gain more respect and possibly affection from her. And Jack also falls in love with her along the way. So by the time Jack goes to confront Fontaine, the two of them would be deeply in love. More support for my theory come from the final line in the "Good" ending: "And in the end, what was your reward? You never said, but I think I know. A family." What I think Tenenabum means by that is they were together for a while and Jack never did mention what his reward was for saving the Little Sisters.

So after Fontaine is dead, there is enough time between Jack choosing to adopt the five Little Sisters and him going topside in a bathysphere for him and Tenenbaum to kiss, embrace, etc. They go back to the surface togther and get married soon after. Besides, Jack can't raise the five little girls all by himself. There is NO WAY he can do that. Sure, he can defeat hundreds of splicers and kill the most powerful man in Rapture singlehandly, but he needs some help in rasing the girls. Who better to do this than the "Mother" of all of them? — Mr Bio Shock 01:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Tenenbaum also worked with Charles Milton Porter. Really, I don't see any sure reason why he would take a wife, let alone Tenenbaum with her own objectives. ~Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę _{{ talk }} 21:03, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Considering what Tenenbaum said, the only thing that seems certain is that she stayed to help Jack for a while, or for whatever reason she had. The rest is probably just Fanfic. But it's a nice image all the same, just not possible. Dark Swarmlord 13:55, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

I never said they really got married, I just noticed these details and it is just a theroy. It would be quite nice if it was true, though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr Bio Shock 01:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Aw hell no! Jack is mine! just kidding. So anyway, I always thought what tenenbaum meant by family is just the children. I think 5 little girls is as much as any nuclear family. Second she worked with lots of guys, like Yi Suchong and Milton and Fontaine. Sometimes there is someting implied about them having some "relations" between Fontaine and Tenenbaum. (paparazzi's audio diary) But, shes probably pretty profesional. Third of all think about it. Tenenbaum and Suchong were supposed to take care of Jack. I am talking surrogate parents. Like Tenenbaum is Jack's mother figure. If what your saying is canon, it would be disgusting. Sorry to burst your bubble.PiccoloGirl 01:35, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't mean for it be "canon" (besides, canon is confusing, I made it as simple as possible). The two of them fall in love during Jack's little adventure, and get marrried after they leave Rapture. Hey, a little time in Rapture can bring people together.

True, true. your story is kinda heartwarming. make a fan fic why don't you? I have my own fan fic.PiccoloGirl 01:35, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

I thought people considered this Fanfic to begin with. BTW what sort of Fanfic did you make? Mr Bio Shock 01:21, March 24, 2011 (UTC) 20:01, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

also tenenbaum is in bioshock 2 so i disagree i believe she would stay down in rapture looking after the rest of the little sisters jack saved

@ who ever posted above-

You obviously can't read. Tenenbaum left for the surface after the events of BioShock and returned in BioShock 2 to rescue the new generation of Little Sister. She says so in the audio diary Return, found in the Adonis Luxury Resort. 21:14, April 18, 2011 (UTC)

Finished my first fanfic bout this topic, check it out on my profile. Mr Bio Shock 23:35, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

...Isn't she basically his adoptive mother, since she helped create him?

Red Hypo

Someone help me on this, I don't know: The first Hypo Jack injects hinmself with is red. Would this mean that plasmids can come in jars and hypos?Blahmarrow 17:56, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

Its just the method of how people can extract Plasmids and Tonics. Unlike Vigors, people don't drink those jars. Instead, they use syringes to extract any Plasmids and Tonics from the jars. This can be seen around the beginning of BioShock 2, where Delta uses the syringe to first extract the Electrobolt Plasmid from the top of the jar, and then injects it into himself.Evans0305 19:50, October 29, 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense, thanks.Blahmarrow 14:49, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

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New and improved Plasmids/Tonics came in orally applied form (and less popular suppository form maybe...)

Many people dont like needles (especially ones size of knitting needles) and more wouldnt want to do  do theinjections themselves).   Maybe addicted Splicers dont care, but these were meant to be consumer items for less enthusiastic users (Ryan/Sinclair would capitalize on that to push their versions if Fontaine didnt)

Testxyz 08:04, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

jack's life in bioshock 2

i wanted to know more about jack in bioshock 2 there is a possibility that jactk is delta in bioshock 2 and that shows why he still in rapture???? no? well i am new to the game so i don't know a lot ;_; 184.184.171.76 00:13, July 31, 2013 (UTC)mark abrahams

You should read the articles about Jack and Delta, I think they are pretty much complete. Concerning the fate of Jack in BioShock 2, the game leaves it open whether the good end of BioShock happened or the bad one. You can hear splicers talking about it in the Atlantic Express level, but neither of them agree on each other.

Pauolo (talk) 09:49, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

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Heh it would be Sofia that Eleanor might have been reconstituted from 10 year-old rotted corpse tissue instead of Johnny Topside (or whoever).   Jack would have fried Sofia on the spot if she tried to pull her little escapade on him.   (Actually thats a pretty good 'alternate universe' plot with sufficient Twisty-ness). 75.36.138.148 08:16, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

"Caucasian male who, prior to his unwilling arrival"

Probably should remove 'unwilling'  as it true in one sense but false in another.

Testxyz 07:33, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Jack's age

I do not have much to say but Jack

Could be in the 20's Because you see him in old years "Showing" his hands LOOKING hes old NO!

I saw comments posting "2k does not want to give out his AGE!!!!!" something like that i believe is true but

He was born 1956 IN RAPTURE

But i believe when he was in rapture as we were playing in rapture i believe he was around 14-16

when he escaped rapture and living on his life he was maybe 20-22 years old?

Could 2k make another Bioshock in rapture with you playing as Jack and entering the Life of a Daddy?

Well we arleady know what it feels like anyways but what about having choices to play as a Bouncer,Rosie,Lancer,Rumbler or himself?

"…he'll never become a Splicer…"

First how could you tell you dont see him to see if there are any changes (his hands being the part you usually see and then they are warped by the plasmids he is using).

Crazy part of being a Splicer?  He walks around slaughtering people wholesale, sounds alot like typical Splicer behavior to me.

He isnt really there for very long so the genetic damage might not be resulting yet (repeated ADAM use is mentioned, else most people would never have used it if the tumors and such manifested themsleves that quickly).   Somewhere it says that you start to mutate when you dont keep taking ADAM (more like your original genetics try to assert themselves conflicting with the partial RNA in the remaining ADAM)

Later plasmids/tonics may have been improved by Ryans research - its not like Ryan would want MORE crazy deformed people in Rapture when his intentions were rebuilding his city.

Testxyz (talk) 09:05, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

The following has been removed from the "Behind the Scenes" section as it's ungrounded supposition:

• For story and gameplay reasons, despite Jack being able to use an abundance of Plasmids, EVE, and Gene Tonics, he'll never become a Splicer or form an addiction for ADAM. This may be due to the changes made to his genetics.

As has been stated, ADAM affects everyone differently. Jack uses many different Plasmids (though it is possible to play the game without using them much at all) but for a comparatively short time (a few hours to 1 day). It'd be hard to describe the Splicing he does as "ADAM abuse." Similar to other addictive substances (alcohol, tobacco, morphine, cockaine, etc.) one day's use (even a particularly heavy usage) would not be enough to cause adverse side effects associated with long term abuse.

Unownshipper (talk) 03:29, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

Plus, it's also worth noting that the Splicers that Jack has to kill in Bioshock have been using ADAM for years. I doubt using ADAM for one day would be enough to drive Jack insane. Timjames98 (talk) 00:15, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

The splicers in Bio 2's multiplayer have been splicing for a year, and they look terrible. I'm going to say, it could be related to how long they spliced and in which quantity, but it's really just speculation. Pauolo (talk) 00:20, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Canon Ending?

Since the end of Burial at Sea concurs the good ending of BioShock (Jack is to save the little sisters including Sally, bring them to the surface, and adopt them) - should we make the articles concerning the ending (BioShock, Jack, Tenenbaum, etc.) canon to the good ending? --Gearslover01 (talk) 21:57, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

• Sadly Sally's just one Little Sister. We have no indications to her fate in later games (They were produced before BaS after all). Because of that, we can't say for certain if Jack saved her or not, ergo we still have no idea what the canon ending is. ADDED: Plus Sally could have been one of the sisters he harvested Geekius Maximus (talk) 22:09, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
• Killed by Splicers, drowned in a building failure, dissected by Suchong, Big-Sisterized and killed by Delta, wandered off to some remote site and become Princess Pony (an equivalent of Master-Blaster with her Big Daddy), escaped to the surface was picked up bay some boat and wound up in Area 51.... : any number of fates could have happened.
  

But Elizabeth saw Jack rescue Sally (cured her and brought her to the surface) - that's canon - that she saw that at least in this universe (which is the same in Bio1) that Sally would be saved by Jack. --Gearslover01 (talk) 00:54, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Where's the source Geekius Maximus (talk) 00:59, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

The source? It's the ending of Burial at Sea. Ken Levine confirmed on his twitter that the Rapture we are in at Burial at Sea is the exact, prime Rapture Jack is in during BioShock 1. Everything that happened in Burial at Sea is the result of what the player goes through in Bio1. --Gearslover01 (talk) 01:08, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

What exactly is 'canon' when there are infinite universes with every possible possibility existing ??  We dont even know what happened to Jack beyond that limited scene in the 'Evil Ending' (did he die within a few days of a childhood disease or marines on the sub machine gunned him and all the splicers, or they simply left and he went back to Rapture -- SLBM Missile subs dont investigate plane crashes in most logical universes - so no nukes for Jack anyway).    As mentioned  an awful lot of LS 'bit the dust' one way or another so we really cant say what would have happened to her.

-

We don't know what exactly 'Prime Rapture' mean. Prime Rapture could be Bioshock 1 Rapture we played before. Also, it could be Rapture which has same flow of history of Bioshock 1.

Pawn of Atlas (talk) 03:32, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Both. Ken Levine said that the Rapture in BioShock 1 is the same in every way of Burial at Sea. What occurs in Burial at Sea and what occurs in BioShock is within the same universal line (sure stuff branches off) but it's the same line. So the good ending of BioShock would be the canon one. --Gearslover01 (talk) 04:45, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

-

'Same' by definition doesnt exist between multiverses - each one is different.  And when infinite universes 'branch off' every sub-femto-second, each one being different, then they are NOT 'the same'.  All this crap with using vigor names and whole warped sections about Atlas and all the other newly introduced Columbia type stuff simply shows this is NOT the same Rapture and there is no real reason that it needs to be. 

Ken Levine can say anything he wants, the money is in the bank, and it matters not that these weird addon stories dont make any sense.  'Prime' actually doesnt make any sense in the fantasy quantum multiverse system employed in BS Infinite and now tainting Rapture.

Booker and Elizabeth switched between at least 3 (4?) different 'dimensions' (alternate universes in BS Infinite )  -- so which one of THEM is 'prime'   ???

First of all Ken Levine can say anything he wants, its hes work and he can change/add it anyway he wants.

Second of all, we need to remember that all of this is in one universe,This universe is the one that maters because we see and play it, sure there's an infinite number of possibilities, but if we count them in, there's nothing that is canon and nothing that isn't, ex. there's one where the civil war never started, one where Elizabeth never died, one where Mark Meltzer never found Rapture, one where Andrew Ryan was never born and where Sally is the queen of Rapture... do you see my point?

Shacob (talk) 18:44, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

Yes that is a point. Having Time Travel, Cross-Dimensional Meddling, Do-Overs, Infinite Alternate Universes makes it rather bothersome for the player to distinguish anything that should matter in the story.  Its all quicksand that can be changed and changed again at the writer(s) whim.  Its a distraction because of its weirdness to the player who cant relate to it and it detracts from appreciation of any other story element.

75.36.136.164 05:35, May 6, 2014 (UTC)

BaSE2 model picture

Isn't this the model we see in BasE2 when he stands at the lighthouse stairs, I'm pretty sure that if you would put light on hes face it would be the same: its really accurate if you look at the the one we see in the game with the shadow on hes face and the pictures that was put up?!

--Shacob (talk) 18:43, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

If the model was taken from the game files then clearly it's meant to be jack. Why else would he be wearing the exact same jumper that only jack is seen wearing? (46.7.95.98 18:50, March 30, 2014 (UTC))

Now that's what I thought, but people keep taking them down. and if that's taken from the game files then that's probably the same one we see in the game, only with shadowing or is there another model for the one we see in the game, if that's the case, I would like to see it!

Shacob (talk) 18:55, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

You should try using UE Model Viewer then. It's a free tool to visualize, import and export content from games using versions of the Unreal Engine. It should be able to generate its model. Pauolo (talk) 19:20, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

This is indeed Jack's model from Burial at Sea: Episode 2. I extracted his model from the game files and rendered it inside 3ds max, then posted it here.

--Ananina23 (talk) 02:04, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

A trustworthy source has uploaded their own version. It matches the model above. 114.108.212.143 16:10, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Plausible Reason why Jack isnt affected by ADAM :

First, you dont see him (Jack) directly in the original game, so any minor face/body 'tumors' arent evident (hands get mutated by ADAM plasmids anyway)

Second, Is he actually there long enough to be affected that way ?   We keep pumping ourselves full of more ADAM over a time period that is mere days (or hours) .     The game's excuse of why Ryan simply didnt ban ADAM and throw Fontaine in prison for intentionally poisoning people was that it took so long to manifest itself (you would think that at least a FEW early heavy users getting diseased/mangled/insane would have made the newspapers and scared the hell out of most Citizens from even touching the stuff, and actually MAKE  Ryan  regulate the stuff as a public health/safety measure).

-

Jack is not a normal human, he was bio-engineered with Lot 111 by Dr. Suchong, this might have something to do with his apparent immunity to mutation and insanity etc. from using Adam. Atlas would not have wanted his assassin (Jack) turning into a crazed splicer before Jack got to Ryan.

-

Possibly but then we arent told so so all you can say is 'maybe'

Again how long it takes to become freakish looking and/or insane we arent really told (indirectly you can infer it doesnt happen too fast) and there no doubt are variations of reactions depending on how much,which ones,how frequently(and possibly some people being morse susceptible).  Tonics vs Plasmids etc...

"neither of his true parents (the persons that conceived him) have these traits"

or nobody (developers) bothered to think about the issueor cared to check ???

Before this DLC did you ever get a proper look at Jack ??

Any good closeups in  BS1 even seen of Jack ?? DO we see Jolene or Ryan closups in the DLC ? (more cud to digest for the alternate universe side...)

You're Looking Pretty Old There, Jackie

young Jack.

Jack, in all his feeble glory.

Security Photo of Jack

Ugh, I'm not really a fan of this character model. From his long, rounded face, sandy hair, wrinkled brow, and prefectly/neatly parted hair, (sorry if you have this combination of features) this Jack just looks like an old man. I was trying to think of a word to describe this guy, and I think I came up with it: Milquetoast

I know they intended for him to stay in the shadows or for us to never get a good look at him in the game, but they have to know that we're talented enough to go looking through the game files for this model. Give him darker hair, a square jaw, a shorter forehead, and that flippy sort of part his haircut has in the security photos and then we've got something.

Unownshipper (talk) 07:46, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

Its likely that Suchongs method of allowing jack to age to an adult in just a few years worked a little too well. His passport photo would of been taken when he was first smuggled up to the surface and since then he has aged rapidly, which is why he looks a lot older by Bioshock, and why he is a very old dying man by the time the Little Sister's he saved are young women.

(Night at the Kashmir (talk) 17:17, May 2, 2014 (UTC))

But that image of him above is taken from his passport.

The only reason he'd have a passport is to get on the international flight without attracting the attention of the airline officials, so that picture would likely be taken just before he took his trip. If it was taken when he left Rapture, and then he aged rapidly like your theory suggests, then he'd look like a completely different person when he boarded the flight. The attendants would be suspicious that he looks like a 50 year old instead of a twenty-something and assume he stole the passport.

It just seems a little unnecessary that the designers have to make you come up a theory like this in the first place. Like it would have taken just as much effort from the designers to make him look like a 24-year old (his indicated age on his passpport) as it did to make him look old. Maybe less, I doubt it was simple to put those wrinkles in his forehead.

On a seperate note, we never know how old the Little Sisters Jack saved are when he died (young women, fully matured women) since we only see their hands.

Unownshipper (talk) 23:24, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

I believe they reused and edited an existing model, hence the wrinkles and strange face. You aren't going to see his face anyway in the game, and theres overwhelming evidence that once he stopped being administered doses of whatever chemical suchong pumped him full of, he aged normally again. .—The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheLuckOfTheClaws (talk) 03:39, 3 November 2021 (UTC). Please sign your posts!

Jack's Hair & Eye Color

Brown and Brown

Light Brown and Green

Ok so we have a discrepency between BioShock and Burial at Sea (Shocker!). In the first game, Jack's passport lists both his hair and eye color as brown. In Burial at Sea - Episode 2 the character model made for him has light brown hair and green eyes.

So here's the thing: neither of these images were supposed to be seen in either game. Jack's passport never appears in BioShock (just in the game files) while the character model only appears in the shadows, so, unless you access the game files, you'd never be able to tell the hair and eye colors.

So which description should we consider canon for the character info box from BioShock or Burial at Sea?

Unownshipper (talk) 21:28, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

Well there's  is still arguing over the eye color, so I would say that we don't include the eyecolor at all. The only way we even know this is becuse we found the character model and the unused passport that was not seen in the final game. So can we actually call any of them canon, they probably didn't put that much time on the eyes considering that it was not going to be seen in BaS. To my understanding, they still could change the eye color anyway they want concidering the eyes where never seen in game (ofcourse in the WYK room in Bio1 you see jacks face, but its black and white andusually everyones eyes turn dark then).

Shacob (talk) 22:17, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

That's only a temporary fix as some contributor will notice the missing description and put in the info from either Bio1 or BAS thinking no one else but him noticed this before. Then some other editor will change it to the other coloration and the edit battle will start up again. I recommend listing the colors from both games to put an end to it.

Unownshipper (talk) 09:38, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

God point! I think thats how we are gone solve this! We don't want it to go so far as with the Elizabeth (SPOILERS) Death "riots".

Shacob (talk) 16:13, May 27, 2014 (UTC)

Hoisted on their own logical petard...

Why would Fonatine go to the substantial trouble of using Ryan's genetic make up allegedly to get past 'security' - when that security didnt yet exist ??   The turrets/scanners/patrolling flybots werent added until the Civil War started -1959 when Jack was 'built' in 1956 (and planned for some time even before that)???   The full lockdown of the Bathyspheres  - had THAT happened yet (wasnt that another security measure part of the Civil War actions of Ryan to tighten up security - wasnt it ??)

Was it some intended ironic slight to Ryan to be killed by his own son ? Seems a bit overelaborated to expect Ryan to have a 'heartfelt' discussion long enough to find all that out before being assasinated?

Far more logical to have the Below Tree computer console in Ryan's office turn out to be a killer transformer robot than this long convoluted 'Jack' plan (yes might not be as 'epic'/twisty for Ryan's biazzre swan song).

Isn't there a public address announcement in Burial at Sea Episode 1 about Ryan security? I think it talks about the Security Bots. The Turrets were also in the Department Store indicating both security devices were present in 1958, conceiveably even earlier.

I do think they're messing stuff up, but not in this case.

Unownshipper (talk) 06:44, May 5, 2014 (UTC)

Pre-BaSx, because with that DLC they went off into weirdsville with so many things including having all the security stuff in place that early (pre Kashmir) so the DLC player had them as opponents - logical to have them guarding a prison on a perimeter, but having them strangely in the interior is the wrong place, and then they have all the other typical logical prison elements missing.  

McClendon Robotics gives hints that there was some privately bought security (Flybots with guns and the diarist commenting that rockets might be a bit overkill).  But having them patrolling public places in Rapture where they might disturb the citizens even more than the Big Daddies would (who themselves we arent sure walked around that much yet).  

Rapture didnt need that kind of security at that point - the big party atmosphere uplook was 'peace being restored', post- Fontaine... getting back to normal.  Mindless Bots with machineguns read to malfunction and gun down innocent crowds is far worse/threatening than bulked up security forces (not seen either).

Consider creating Jack in 1956 is much much further into the past to have it then as well, for there to need some assasin to get past  'genetic' locked anything.   Wouldnt Fontaine planning assassination so early against such heavy (future?) security mean that things were already in an undeclared war between Ryan and Fontaine ??  Its only a few years after the ADAM products hit the consumer markets.

Didnt they hint several places that the 'security' stuff was cobbled together for the civil war 'emergency'

Seems way too early.

Jack "Ryan"....

Can we discus the annoying fact that some BioShock Wikias in other languages actually have Jack named "Jack Ryan"....

Andrew Ryan might be the biological father of Jack but Andrew was never involved with Jack besides "that one part" and the events of BioShock.

No offence but how are people so ignorant: you don't take a persons surname just because there your biological parent, you get your name from your guardian and in this case Suchong,Tenenbaum or Fontaine. That would be the same as if someone chooses to give there child up for adoption but the child s get the biological fathers surname....

And the same with Elizabeth; on many occasions you see Elizabeth named "Elizabeth Comstock" or "Elizabth Dewitt" which also is ridicules if you think about it. (granted that Andrew Ryan refers Elizabeth as "miss Comestock")

Shacob (talk) 00:56, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Well, there's nothing we can do about Wikis in other languages. It's not right to assume Jack's surname is "Ryan," or even "Wynard" as his passport says, but unless you want to discuss it in another language with the head Admin on those sites why he should only be referred to as "Jack" nothing will be corrected.

I do find it mildly annoying that some people assume a character's last name, but at the end of the day, there's no convincing some people. Same goes for Elizabeth, but after Ryan's comment in Burial at Sea - Episode 2, I can understand their confusion a little easier. Perhaps they're failing to consider that when she came to Rapture she doctored some papers to give her a fake ID so as to draw less attention to herself, maybe that's why Ryan adresses her as "Miss Comstock." She might feel more attachemnt to Booker DeWitt, but she couldn't very well use his surname while she was hunting down Comstock in that reality.

Unownshipper (talk) 03:34, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

You said it all, Unownshipper. Pauolo (talk) 13:12, May 18, 2014 (UTC)

Source for "original game"

There's a bullet in the Behind the Scenes section that looks like it could use some citation. This is it:

• The original game had Jack mutate more and more with Plasmid use, and would make players decide if they wanted splice themselves to the point of inhumanity, or keep Jack human, at the cost of safety.

I couldn't find anything about that anywhere else. How do we know it?

LaneyMarie96 (talk) 03:44, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Delaney

Date of birth

Borrowed from User talk:83.10.19.54

Jack's date of birth might be hard to determine. Jasmine Jolene's pregnancy is revealed in 1958 (in Bioshock: Rapture) and later, toddler Jack is seen in Lab 25. However, Suchong tells in one of his audio diaries that Jack is physically 2 years old. That would mean, he's got to spend at least 2 years in Rapture, before he was sent to the surface.

I've decided to change year of his birth from 1956 to 1958 because this is exactly the year when Jolene sold his zigote to Tanenbaum and Suchong.

That seems to be a small plot hole.

—83.10.19.54

—Mainframe98 _{talk·blog·edits} 16:32, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Posted on User talk:83.10.19.54

Attention user, as you're new to the site I wanted to inform you that the BioShock: Rapture (Novel) is considered non-canon by BioShock's creator Ken Levine, major members of the creative staff, and this Wiki. You'll find a number of other plot holes and glaring inconsistencies within John Shirley's book and the original game, so many in fact, that the whole thing has been written off as a piece of highly-detailed fan fiction by the series' community. Because of this, your edit will be undone. I do very much appreciate you explaining your reasoning here so as to show that the change made with the best of intentions. Please continue to contribute to the Wiki.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:35, September 29, 2015 (UTC)

Page Quote

what's the dealio with the top page quote using dialogue that got cut from the game and only exists in the files? Isn't that somewhat disineguous2001:569:BDF9:8600:2944:CDA2:92D1:4FE9 05:53, April 7, 2019 (UTC) 

That's not what disingenuous means, but to answer your question, it's our policy here to write out details like quotes as they appear in the game files with as little revisionism for spelling, grammar, content, etc. as possible. So that's why the quote is the way it is.

Unownshipper (talk) 20:18, April 9, 2019 (UTC)

Five daughters?!

Why only five daughters? Their much more - at least 10-15. In Burial at Sea it is clear that the girls from BioShock are not the only ones.

P.S. I ask the answer to write short.

--МХК46 (talk)

You will get the good ending even if you only rescue one Little Sister and leave ever other alone, thus making it unclear how many were actually saved. During the end cutscene of BioShock we see 5 adult Little Sister hands holding old Jack's hand at once (the highest number of Sisters seen on the surface). which is the only confirmed number we have. We don't know if some sisters went with Tenenbaum or were sent elsewhere. Maybe Jack only adopted the Sisters he couldn't track down any living family for. That's why "at least" is written in Jack's infobox and we don't have more than five Sisters included.

--Shacob (talk) 15:45, June 13, 2019 (UTC)

Well, but in BioShock and Burial at sea there were different bathysphere and together their 8. Perhaps you are right, but you can't just write a few? --User:МХК46 (talk)

Jack's Sweater

Jack's sleeves.

Surprise, surprise, I'm adding another think piece about why I hate Jack's model from Burial at Sea - Episode 2 (my third thus far!). Let me start out by noting that my opinions to the Burial at Sea (DLC) have changed considerably over the years and I can unreservedly sing its merits: I think as a standalone narrative Episode 1 is a brilliant example of the Classical Hollywood era film noir, I think it's great that Ken Levine and a number of the original game designers were able to say goodbye to Rapture on their terms, and I've gotten over my initial skepticism and can fully see that the DLC is a canon part of the series lore. Still in my mind there are certain little things that continue bog it down and make it look rushed and slightly less worthy than it ought to be.

Jack's sweater in BioShock.

One of these aspects is the (dis)continuity of Jack and my disappointment with his model. Today we're discussing his iconic sweater, and a subtle but important detail I only noticed this month. Very little is known about the appearance of our audience-surrogate, silent protagonist aside from a passport that the player never sees without cheat codes. Still, what we can see is his forearms and the in-game security photos of him. It is with these slim details that many a fan and cosplayer have picked up a wrench and donned fuzzy cable-knit sweaters of the Aran jumper variety.

Jack's sweater is a small but crucial detail; it's the only thing we have for his appearance, but this lone item affords Jack a little bit of personality and uniqueness. In a market saturated with gun-toting action men decked out in gnarly tactical outfits with far too many pockets or the standard badass leather jacket/trench coat, Jack's iconically Twentieth Century cream-colored sweater is a welcome change. It evokes a gruff protagonist from a 1940/50s movie and it was perfect for the setting of BioShock.

So with the importance of this one item, you'd think the designers would go to great length to replicate its details. Nope! Look closely at the security photo above. From the shadowing around Jack's chin and face it appears that his sweater has a crew-neck, a rounded neckline with no collar. Now compare it with the model from BAS which is obviously a turtleneck! Come on guys, you couldn't even get that detail right!? No, don't worry, you go ahead and focus your time and attention on capturing all that rich detail and overdone textures in his face and chin that no one in the audience will actually see when you put the front of his model in shadow, who cares about continuity like eye color or outfits anyway?

A crew-neck sweater.

A turtle neck sweater.

BAS Jack.

Even shadows can't hide that turtleneck.

This is what I mean by rushed. While BAS is richly detailed and perfectly optimized for the Unreal Engine 3, it often feels like the wrong details were focused on. Meticulously recreating tiny droplets of precipitation but you can't scale the Gene Bank properly so that it's the same size as it was in game one. Putting a huge amount of effort into generating the pores of Jack's face or fibers of his sweater, but you can't match his eye color or the look of his outfit. Priorities!

Unownshipper (talk) 05:26, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

I can explain a few things. Jack's sweater in BaS Ep 2 is probably a reused texture from the dead Lighthouse Keeper in The Lighthouse (BioShock Infinite) at the start of the main game. They many have even reused the model. Jack's skin texture is almost certainly a "stock" texture that is a used as a basis for skin. So it's not that they put a lot of work into the skin texture for Jack's face, they already had the work done for something else and reused it. I do agree that BaS was probably rushed in some areas. Originally Irrational was only supposed to do Episode 2. Episode 1 AND what became Clash in the Clouds were supposed to be done by other teams. 2K Marin's hard fail on the first DLC ended up dumping a lot of work on Irrational they hadn't planned for. Some of the things such as Sander Cohen's eye color being is probably just of a result of people not thinking to even check. Also (as you know) they did a HUGE re-write of Episodes 2's storyline and that also cost time. sm

A separate outfit.

At first I thought you hit the nail on the head, but now I'm not so sure. I always thought Jack's BAS model's hair looked peculiar. That neatly parted hair seemed too prim and old-fashioned for 1960, but would've been right in place in 1912, so I thought your theory made a lot of sense. But as I looked for images of the lighthouse keeper again, I noticed while his model's clothes are similar color-wise, there are some other differences that make me question if it was actually reused. Jack's BAS outfit seems to consist of jeans or navy/grey slacks and a cable knit sweater worn on top while the keeper wears denim overalls with the straps sagging loose and a regular style sweater worn tucked into the pants. Also the shoes are completely different. If anything, the more I look at the body, I'm pretty sure it's a repurposed model of a lower-class Columbia Citizen.

It's possible the designers may have redesigned the model but I doubt it because the changes would've been extensive (losing the straps, lowering the pants, untucking the sweater, retexturizing it, making the shoes into wingtips, etc.) or perhaps used it as a starting point to make Jack's, but regardless it looks too dissimilar to the final Jack BAS model to be simple repurposed. I'm sure you're right about the skin texture being stock and the designers themselves probably weren't wasting time optimizing that, but it underscores my point about misappropriating assets (money) on little details over the big picture.

I actually hadn't heard anything about these behind the scenes production mishaps. That's quite shocking, though in retrospect maybe it shouldn't be. It makes a lot of things make sense, very enlightening. Please share any details you have.

Unownshipper (talk) 14:26, August 15, 2019 (UTC)

Final Years of Irrational Games by Polygon. This is from about halfway down the page.

2K Marin was scheduled to create at least the first part of planned downloadable content. But just after BioShock Infinite's release in March 2013 — as Marin approached alpha on this first piece of DLC — it became clear to senior employees at Irrational that the final product would be unacceptable. Irrational had already taken responsibility for the third piece of DLC, then the second, and now it would need to handle all three pieces.

The studio had, according to a former employee, about nine weeks to finish Clash in the Clouds, the first add-on to Infinite. It was a wholly new project — 2K Marin's work, which one source says could have seen Infinite's floating city crashing in some capacity into the ocean, was scrapped entirely.

So yeah. MAJOR crunch time. Then you had the minor rewrite of Burial at Sea - Episode 1 and the TOTAL rewrite of Burial at Sea - Episode 2 on top of that. Frankly considering the time limitations they did a very good job. And this situation was probably the final nail in the coffin of 2K Marin as well. sm --Solarmech (talk) 16:42, August 15, 2019 (UTC)

Oh my God, I knew nothing about any of this. That's terrible. No wonder we didn't get things like a model of Brigid Tenenbaum or that Diane McClintock tease that never materialized. How could 2K Marin drop the ball like that? I'm going to have to give this a thorough read later. That is upsetting, I thought at least the team went out delivering the story they wanted. That kind of harrowing situation makes the tiny detail mistakes like this make more sense. It's revealing, but it's not the answer I wanted to hear. Damn.

Unownshipper (talk) 16:44, August 16, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it sucks massive moose wad. As for 2k Marin we have to remember that a lot of it's top staff left after BioShock 2 was done. Most of the remining top people (such as Steve Gaynor) moved to Irrational to work on BSI. 2K Marin didn't seem to have the leadership or visionaries needed for the first DLC. Now I am certain there were still some very good people at 2K Marin/Australia (they kept changing the name) but maybe not enough or not in the right or senior leadership positions. Even Levine needed an organizer to help get BSI out the door. sm --Solarmech (talk) 17:23, August 16, 2019 (UTC)

Voice Actor

I was confused about Jack VA. Ok then, Nate Wells recorded intro speech (confirmed), but IMDB page says the opposite (as Adam Sietz).

I wrote an email to Adam (with 1st trailer link) and got a response!

""Thanks for reaching out. I recorded BioShock so long ago and in all honesty I’ve never actually played it. The answer to your question is a definite Yes. I did record the voice of Jack Ryan.

There was not that much dialogue. I do recall there were very few main lines. Then there was a lot of “Huh?’s” “What was that?” And similar smaller bits and a lot of physical gestures, grunts, groans and other various takes.

Nate physically worked on the project As he is an amazing art director. It is definitely possible that he recorded too and did not get credited. This business is wacky like that.

I can say that it was a fun project. We typically do the voice recording before the animation is completed. Therefore, the only completed visual clip they had to show me at the time of VO recording was very creepy. I watched my characters POV slapping a wrench in my hand about to crush a little girls head (similar to that scene in the trailer link you included) just before she turned into an evil demon child and leaped at me to attempt eat my face. Wild stuff. I think I also played Slicers or something like that in I think both 1 & 2. But, it’s been so long I cannot remember.""

Here's some examples (lovely eh? :D) !!!VOLUME WARNING!!!

--HydroxZD (talk) 11:37, June 02, 2020 (UTC)