Talk: Persephone

There is a Gene Bank in the room with Eleanor's Quarantine Chamber that is mislabled on the map as a Gatherer's Garden. --Namelesswalaby 13 Feb 2010 1427hrs

Load Screen Song

Anybody have the resources to find a name to the song that plays while this level is loading? Josrence44 02:21, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sounds from the Lighthouse might have the answer you are looking for.

BlueIsSupreme 02:46, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but what I mean is the brass, jazzy-song that plays when loading the level Inner Persephone. Josrence44 02:48, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

That song is called 'Nightmare' and is by Artie Shaw.

Thank you very much. Josrence44 13:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Article name

I have created two articles by the name of Outer Persephone and Inner Persephone. We can't have a single meaningful article on both levels. I suggest we make this article on whole prison, then those on the levels. Sledgehammerx 20:37, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

I thought up a structure for this, although I can't have it finalized until Gardimuer plays the level:

Nav Bar: Persephone, Inner Persephone

Inside articles, link to an article on "Persephone Penal Colony," which just gives a history and outlook of the entire place.

But, as it stands now, we need level listings (so we can walkthough and map) and then listings for the facility itself. By the way, there's no "Persephone Outer," as I'm sure you know. It's just Persephone. Should really get these organized around, but for now we should leave it as-is. ~Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę _{{ talk }} 21:09, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

That level in particular manages to have no less than 3 different names: Persephone (on loading screen), Persephone Outer (on save games) and Lamb (in audio diary library). I just used the one that was the easiest to distinguish. Sledgehammerx 22:01, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Just documenting, this page is now focused on the history of Persephone as a business, and the pages Outer Persephone and Inner Persephone are devoted to the levels. ~Gardimuer  ^{ ʈalk } 01:52, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Luminescent Biomass

I was thinking, should the 'Luminescent Biomass' in the ocean trench beneath Persephone have its own article, now that we know what it is? It is mentioned both here and in the sea slug article, and its intense glow is a significant feature of Persephone (I certainly spent a lot of time wondering what it was, at any rate), and now that we have an explanation I think it should have its own page, especially considering it is directly responsible for the production of ADAM. Just a thought. I think it's an interesting enough subject. Fyrisvellir 23:02, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Question of interpretation :  Inmates 'rented out' voluntary or not ??

I went back to look at all the posters on the walls (turned out fewer than I thought). I thought they looked like they were repeating the thing done in real prisons/jails during that era, when they offered early release (and probably better treatment) to inmates who volunteered for some medical experiments (usually was some kind of drug testing and not conversion into a soulless zombie mechanoid).   The one with the bag of money at the inmates feet looks like it is implying the inmate is being paid, not handing his money over to get some 'sooner'  (or better) treatment.

I would figure with the ADAM driven insanity, the early extreme cases would wind up in some facility (probably an insane asylum at Persephone) where they had to be 'warehoused' at public expense. Criminally insane people would often have to be held in isolation, if not completely restrained so as not to hurt themselves.  Look at the history of such places in that era such  'lobotomizing' patients was common.  Just like in the good ole USA back then,  a court would decide once someone was too insane (mentally incompetant) to decide for themselves what became of them (not killed though).  But someone would have to pay for it all, and in Rapture that would be a sticking point in such decisions.  I suppose you could consider being 'pacified' and turned into a Big Daddy as equivalent to continuous restraint or  mental obliteration via lobotomy (with the bonus of the inmate being made useful in society). 

Some (mentally competant) inmates with Life Sentences (remember this was also a general prison not just the 'gulag'  which might have been implied) might voluntarily 'opt out' and volunteer for Big Daddification (it is also not really clear how much personality still remains after that conversion).

One other piece of evidence -  all the verbage of Lambs followers 'sacrifice' -- of subjecting themselves to become test subjects.  'Sacrifice' is not generally defined as involuntary.  That I think implies that the subjects still had to 'volunteer' - even though there may be some coersion with the 'better treatment' (carrot) and whatever 'convincing' Sofia Lamb was able to use on her followers to get THEM to volunteer (earning HER advantages with the Prison authorities, apparently).

Known inmates

Augustus Sinclair was detained here, when he was turned into a Big Daddy by Sofia Lamb. Not sure how long it would have taken, to turn him into a Big Daddy, but he would have been kept in cells/labs during the treatment.

You still wouldn't call him a "known inmate." It's more of a historical identifier of when the facility ran under its original purpose, not when Lamb took it over.

Unownshipper (talk) 02:40, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

"Undo revision 175091 by Testxyz (talk) I've listened to those radio messages several times, and the majority of them mention that the Rapture Family controls Rapture, not just a part of it."

You mean like Minerva's Den  ???  Thats an 'area' of Rapture she DID NOT control. The Minervas Den levels are  about 1/4 the size of everything we saw in BS2.  And MD controls more than that to get all their supplies from.    How much of the rest of Rapture could be similar??

Clearly, Sophia Lamb and 'the Family' DID NOT control ALL of Rapture.

Again, we only saw a tiny bit of Rapture in BS2 (a Southern corner of it, and alot of that is actually pretty marginal parts of Old Rapture at that.   We saw very few connections going to any other parts of Rapture)

You cannot go by what Audio Recordings say as they are of limited or biased perspective and NOT valid narration of the whole story.   Sophia Lamb for example can say whatever she wants but its clearly illustrated how deluded she is.

Testxyz (talk) 10:08, November 12, 2013 (UTC)

The Unsinkable Persephone ? :

Lambs stooges plant the explosives and set ALL of them off and .....   Nothing happens,  as the place actually floats by itself.  Plenty of air volume inside its structure  and unless they flooded the whole thing - it wouldnt sink.  It actually would be a safety feature to NOT make the place so heavy (and awful lot of extra ballast ($$$) to offset the air filled volume to purposely/intentionally make it possible to sink ).   Also if you bother to notice -- the buildings are imbedded in the rocks/walls of the cavern - just destroying a few supports wont do what they say.  Entire structural sections have to be blasted away.   That last pile of explosives if it was anywhere near that strong would have turned Delta/Eleanor/Sofia/Assorted LS/The Life Boat all into wreckage and hamburger.

Another delusion of Sofia's or just lying threats made to her daughter/Delta ???

Testxyz (talk) 13:35, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

During gameplay, Lamb's followers didn't set all of explosive off at once. They set them off sequentially, and repeatedly. Maybe, they focused on detonating core structure of Persephone. Furthermore, ocean 'trench' where persephone is established has very strong water pressures. If Lamb's followers detonates wall or window, fatal pressure change by water will destroy everything.

Pawn of Atlas (talk) 00:33, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

'Trench'

There is a Mid Atlantic Ridge which goes through Iceland and near past where Rapture is supposed to be,  which would be a possible cause for the Volcano and geothermal activity Rapture is built upon.  A result of plate tectonics...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/graphics/Fig16.gif

They use the term 'trench' repeatedly though it is more likely a collapsed magma chamber of Rapture's old volcano.   You dont get 'caverns' suspended over 'trenches' in the real ocean (the rock has weight, its doesnt float, it collapses eventually if unsupported, the bigger the more unstable, etc...).   This 'trench-like' thing might have a partial cavern (hollowed area) in the 'trench' wall to have Persephone leaning into its ceiling, and downward (at a slope) see that deeper part in the 'trench' where the glowing biomass is supposed to be  (just dont let it be too far down there or the glowy light is absorbed by the water ... ~650 feet thru water and even strong sunlight is gone).

Testxyz (talk) 14:10, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Political dissidents or crazed criminals?

In most audio diaries outside of Persephone (not inmates), both future prisoners and witnesses talk about Persephone being the place where Ryan sent people who spoke or were against him and his ideals. He silenced Sophia Lamb for her growing faction, Harold Parson for spreading Sophia's word, Milton Porter for allegedly siding with Fontaine, Johnny Topside from fame to silence, etc.

But in the article, we state that it was the place where all criminals were sent. I remember the Bioshock: Rapture novel distinguished Persephone as where Ryan sent those who spoke up against him or spread ideals that were not his own, to ultimately silence or have more or less political enemies disappear while another prison/jailhouse was set up for the more criminally insane and common criminal.

Also, to note, might be why he sent Splicers and more dangerous criminals to Fontaine's Department store instead of sending them to Persephone from a story standpoint. Thoughts? Tricksteroffools (talk) 06:29, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

What you're referring to is probably leftover from Testxyz's whitewashing campaign to try and make Andrew Ryan look better. Persephone was a prison camp, plain and simple; heck, there's a reason why the developers referred to it as a "gulag" instead of a jail. You wouldn't send people convicted of embezzlement, fraud, involuntary manslaughter, blackmail, assault, etc. to Persephone. These kinds of cases would be heard in whatever court Rapture had and the guilty would be sent to some form of jail. From there, they'd be able to communicate with others (family, friends, their lawyers) and be released at the completion of their sentence.

Persephone was reserved for people Ryan wanted gone and erased. It's a camp for political prisoners. The inmates sentenced here wouldn't receive a trial and they certainly would never be seen again.

Unownshipper (talk) 08:08, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Sinclair said of Persephone: "Technically, Utopia shouldn't have much use for a detention facility." From that quote I guess that Rapture never had a real penitentiary outside from this one. Ryan Security could have had holding cells for minor crimes or for investigations (like at their temporary HQ in the Wharfmaster's Office), but nothing that could hold hundreds of people, and that would be badly perceived by the general public if Ryan's private forces were ruling it. Also some of Persephone's inmates are clearly mobsters (see Dodge and Murphy). If those were incarcerated in a known prison, it could always cause trouble if their men decided to storm it and break them free.

As for Fontaine's, it wasn't a prison to properly say it, but more like an exile place. Basically, Ryan gave the rebels the department store (and not Fontaine Futuristics like McDonagh wanted) and isolated them from his city while still supplying them. I think the message was: "here's a country for you to live in, don't either come back to mine." Just sending them to Persephone would have forced Ryan to either publicly reveal the place or come up with a huge lie to cover their vanishing. He instead made an example out of them while demonstrating his own ideology. He ultimately sent his men to finish off Atlas because he was preparing himself to strike Rapture from the moment he arrived to the store, and that was a risk Ryan was not willing to take. Also he could have still pretended the people trapped in there were all safe and sound, since no one would have entered the place to check on them. Pauolo (talk) 10:27, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you about Fontaine's. It would've been too difficult to make such a sizeable number of people "disappear." Not just because it'd probably overwhelm Persephone, but also because Frank Fontaine's cohorts likely had families and friends who would wonder where the individuals went leading to too many uncomfortable questions. Also, you're right about the department store serving as an example to the rest of the public; AKA "don;t cross me unless you want to end up like these shmucks."

As for what Sinclair said: "Technically, Utopia shouldn't have much use for a detention facility," I think he's talking more in terms of philosophy and hypotheticals. A true "utopia" or paradise literally has no need for prison, but Rapture is no Shangri-la, it's a real city inhabitted by ambitious geniuses and minimal government intrusion. Like a group of kids in a candyshop, at least one is bound to give into temptation. Still, you're right. They probably did have a minimal jail, just not one big enough to hold the unprecedented number of Fontaine's people.

As for Dodge and Murphy, yes they give off the stereotypical mobster persona, but that's just because of their accents. We don't know for sure if that's why they're there. After all the experiments and torture they experienced in Persephone, maybe they just went mad and performing a jailbreak is making them think they're big time thugs.

On the other hand let's play devil's advocate and assume they are mobster-like criminals. They'd have to be in Persephone for doing something really bad to be "erased." Violent robbery, murder, Frank Fontaine-level crime, etc. I disagree that they wouldn't be incarcerated in a known prison, because of a risk of jailbreak. If their lackies attempted something like that, they'd be mowed down by Ryan Security Splicers. Plus, it'd give'em a perfect reason to carry out the death penalty.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:23, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Death Penalty was only voted among the Council when the smuggling ring investigation went really bad. Still I don't buy the idea of one inmate faking his accent to sound like a mobster, and the other being respectful to him. Also they could have been incarcerated at a time when death penalty wasn't already there. Pauolo (talk) 22:32, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Point well made, but the fact remains that we're only assuming that they're mafia types because of their accents and looks and that's not great. We don't know their crime, maybe they were political dissidents like all the rest.

Unownshipper (talk) 01:32, November 21, 2014 (UTC)