Talk:Rapture Citizen

Discussion

Proof

Something I noticed is that the 2 images earier posted to this Wiki showing the male and female models lists them as "Partygoers." However, in the game, each one is listed as "Rapture Citizen."

Unownshipper (talk) 23:04, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

I assume its just another/alternate name for them, maybe its just worth mentioning in Behind the Scenes?

Shacob (talk) 15:52, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I wonder if "Partygoer" is in fact a specific name for them, or if whoever made the image just added it as a nickname so that vierwers would be able to call them something. Night at the Kashmir, you uploaded the image, can you shed any light on the subject? Is the site on which you found them reputable?

Unownshipper (talk) 21:38, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not even sure where i found these images anymore, but I think it was posted by one of the games developers. The 2K logo is on the bottom so it is possible that partygoer is the file name for the models, and Rapture Citizen is what they are labeled as in-game. 

Night at the Kashmir (talk) 11:23, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Well, that's creates problems.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:07, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

I put one of the pictures in the Google serch bar an I think I found it, quite impressive work.

http://www.solisworks.com/2007/03/blur-studio-bioshock-2.html

Shacob (talk) 19:14, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Good find.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:52, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, you might actually be on to something. In normal circumstances, while looking at a corpse we see Leadhead, Thuggish, Houdini Splicer etc. Not Waders or Lady Smith. They are of course not the same model, so Partygoer Male and Partygoer Female might be a more proper name for them (although I'm not sure if two separate pages are needed). Thoughts?

Shacob (talk) 02:50, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Partygoer for both models seems good to me. I'll try to check the files if I can find their models' names.Pauolo (talk) 11:59, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

Let's hold off on any big decisions until Pauolo gets a chance to look.

Unownshipper (talk) 23:36, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

The texture files list them as MP and FP in the EDEN files. http://imgur.com/a/VWcGP UpgradeTech (talk) 00:12, November 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well that settles it then.

Shacob (talk) 13:53, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

God that's disturbing to see the body splayed out like that. Like Buffalo Bill's woman suit from Silence of the Lambs… Regardless, thanks for bringing this to our attention. That means that the "Rapture Citizen" is a designation of type (like Thuggish Splicer, Spider Splicer, Houdini Splicer, etc.) and the Partygoer is a designation of model (like Lady Smith, Breadwinner, Toasty, etc.).

I propose we leave the page as is, create the Partygoer article, and move the stuff about its Appearance over there. Afterwards, we can add the stuff about the "Rapture Citizens" from Burial at Sea - Episode 1 here.

Unownshipper (talk) 23:55, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

Type

I tenatively tagged the page under the "BioShock 2 Enemies" Category, but is that correct? Eleanor attacks them like enemies and they exhibit some other characteristics of enemies (being searchable, holding valuables, going all rag doll when attacked, etc.), but they aren't combative. That's why I didn't add the "Splicers" category, but is that right? I mean, how else do we group them?

Unownshipper (talk) 23:04, June 20, 2014 (UTC)

Since the one's seen in Outer Persephone are infact splicers from a Little Sisters perspective, then wouldn't they technically be counted as a splicer model? Night at the Kashmir (talk) 13:28, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I suppose so. My only concern is that they're not "Splicers" in the technical sense. If we do add them to the Splicer Model template, how shall we do it? Give it its own row, or put it next to Survivor and rename the row from "removed content" to "Non-Combative" (<=== My personal preference).

Unownshipper (talk) 21:38, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

I think having a Non-Combative section is a good idea 46.7.95.98 00:17, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Rapture Citizens in Burial at Sea

Should the male and female citizens seen on Market and High street in Burial at Sea be added to this page? Night at the Kashmir (talk) 13:06, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

That's a tough question, but an expected one. Here's the thing, this is a specific model with a specific name. We don't even know what the models in Burial at Sea are called. I would personally recommend no.

Unownshipper (talk) 21:38, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Female Model 4

Model 4: This model is dressed exactly like model 2, except her dress has been ripped and is stained. Her make up is smeared and it appears as if she was beaten.

Where is she seen? The only "Rapture Citizen" I've seen that looks stained and beaten is the 4th male model. The one that young Eleanor harvests at the beginning of the intro could easily just be Model 2, and you never see her face.

Unownshipper (talk) 23:25, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe this helps? I found this a while ago: http://www.deviantart.com/art/UNFINISHED-Escape-to-Columbia-436841916 Its really hard to find these models online...

Shacob (talk) 23:49, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Shacob that was the model i was talking about! I found a picture online that had the four seperate variations of the female partygoer (like the one for the four colour variations of Baby Jane in Bioshock 2). The beaten up model was on that but i cant find the picture anymore, I think it might of been taken down Night at the Kashmir (talk) 01:15, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yhrite from deviantART actually has some really nice pictures done using models from Bioshock:

http://yhrite.deviantart.com/art/Splicer-in-the-Mirror-446346928

Night at the Kashmir (talk) 01:27, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

These are very cool images.

So are these made by extracting the files from the game and tweaking them to be posed? I just want to be sure that Model 4 really does come from the game (since we never see her in this state) and Yhrite didn't simply redesign a clean Rapture Citizen for the purpose of making an awesome picture.

Unownshipper (talk) 20:55, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

The beaten up model is one of the variants of the female partygoer, like the male variant, I just cant find the picture of that one with the other 3 variations. But im not sure if that version was actually used in the game. It could likely have been the one eleanor harvested from in the intro but it's hard to tell. I think the beaten up male variant only appeared in outer persephone by accident, as all of the other models are the cleaner versions, so it seems strange to have that bloodied one just casually standing there. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 22:20, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Actually on further examination of the game's intro I do think the woman harvested by eleanor is the fourth model. If you look closely you can see a stain on the back of her dress, and the frills at the end are dark and dirty when compared to a clean version of the model.

I disagree. I don't see any stain and I think that the dark spot on the frills is just a shadow. We never see what the beaten model looks like from behind on Yhrite's DeviantArt, so it's impossible to tell if the corpse Eleanor gathers from is actually the beaten model.

Regardless, I have a question about the other models. Model 3 is described as wearing "a black dress and can have either black, red or blonde hair." I see one woman in a black dress in the cinematic (the woman pointing) and she only seems to have brown hair.

If I'm not mistaken, we may have a fifth female model. I think I see two models with reddish hair wearing a blue dress.

It's really a shame that Outer Persephone only has two examples of the female Rapture Citizen (the model 1 corpse and the model 2 looking at Gil's statue), clearly a lot of work went into their design.

Unownshipper (talk) 02:20, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

The woman talking to the man in the devil mask seems to have red hair, but on closer inspection im not sure if her dress is black or not. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 11:15, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

I can't tell either.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:07, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Well, If ou have the man wearing the devils mask as a exemple for the color black, I would say that the woman on his left wears a dark green dress with red hair and the woman on his right (the one that is laughing) wears a black dress with dark brown/black hair, makeing a 5 model?

Shacob (talk) 19:32, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Let's return to the game (or see if we can get a more hi-res image) of this opening before we add another.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:52, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

The "third" model?

"Concept art from the Deco Devolution Art Book depicts three models: The male and the female models seen in the game and a second male model not present. This absent model has a gaunt face, prominent nose, sunken eyes, and a sickly thin physique."

I assume that the third model is a "prototype" for the male model. They look similar and in one picture they stand in the exact same position. And I'm wondering if it was even intended for "him" to be in game, he just looks non-human.

Shacob (talk) 19:04, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Hard to say, but I don't think they're meant to be the same. Both men and the woman are in the same position, I think it's just a generic pose to show off the concept model adequately. Maybe at one point he was intended, but someone so grotesque certainly doesn't match the "Little Sister dream" sequence idea, so I understand why he was dropped.

Unownshipper (talk) 22:52, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

"Burial at Sea" look a like.

I know that this might not be the right place to bring this up but I don't know where else.

We have seen Citizen at Market and High Street and I can't be the only one that noticed that some of them look like famous characters such as Audrey Hepburn. This picture of Elizabeth Taylor and the dress she's wearing looks allot like the one seen in BaS.

Do you recognize anyone else?

--Shacob (talk) 02:44, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Well I certainly agree with you that the dress the two on the left are wearing is almost creatainly inspired by Taylor's from that picture. The woman on the right's hair looks a little similar to Taylor's as well (though it's a timeless hairstyle).

This is nothing new though. It totally makes sense that when the designers were researching period-appropriate fashion, they'd be most exposed to photos of famous people. It's just like Tenenbaum's portrait coming from Geraldine Fitzgerald's publicity image.

On an unrealted note, I'd caution referring to the "human" NPCs as "Citizens" with a capital "c." That designation is, thus far, reserved for residents of Columbia and this one particular Splicer model from BioShock 2. Still, I completely understand why you posted this here. Interesting find with that photo of Elizabeth Taylor btw.

Unownshipper (talk) 03:13, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Non-Splicer corpses?

Great work! 

Do we count the non-splicer corpses to this page from Bio and Bio2? The ones Anna Culpepper, Bill McDonagh, Nina Carnegie and Sammy Fletcher use as their character models?

BioShock Male

BioShock Female

BioShock 2 Male

BioShock 2 Female

Shacob (talk) 19:33, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Since those models are only ever used for corpses maybe they should have their own page? Night at the Kashmir (talk) 23:05, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

I agree.

We should have a page for the 4 corpse models that exist, similar to the Partygoer page. The main focus would of course be the appearance section when their only meaning is as a lifeless body and character 'place holder'.

In concept art the female is listed as "Female Corpse"  but I think "Corpse" is to 'non-specific' (since it can be a cat, Toasty etc), so any name suggestions are open...

I'll gladly hear what everyone else thinks about this.

Shacob (talk) 21:00, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, so here are my thoughts on that… A "corpse" is not a model, it's a "type" (I really wish we had a better word to describe this). The model is how it looks, the type is how it functions.

So a Corpse, a Rapture Citizen, a Spider Splicer, a Turret, a Houdini Splicer, and a Big Daddy are all different "types" of enemies; what's different about them is how they engage the player.

One lies on the ground in a heap (basically just a container), one passively stares at the player or talks in a non-hostile way, one throws hooks, one pivots around and shoots, one throws fire balls and disappears, and one will leave you be unless you screw with it.

As you mention, many differnt "models" can be corpses (a cat, a Splicer, a Rapture Citizen, etc). A Big Daddy can have multiple models (Rosie, Bouncer, Alpha Series), a Spider Splicer can have multiple models (Baby Jane, Crawler, Toasty), a turret can have multiple models (Machine Gun turret, Flamethrower turret, Grenade Launcher), ya see what I'm saying?

I'd like to have a page for Corpses, but I don't want a "Corpse" being mistaken for a model when it's a "type."

Unownshipper (talk) 06:28, January 24, 2015 (UTC)

Then I'll say we're on the same boat.

Shacob (talk) 01:06, January 27, 2015 (UTC)

Who or what constitutes as a Rapture Citizen?

Is Rapture citizen discussing the character models seen in Bioshock 2's intro and Burial at Sea ep 1 + 2 only or Rapture Citizens in general (as opposed to Society in Rapture), showing citizens in the state of any given game? For instance, Shacob mentions corpses as citizens who didn't survive the war or committed suicide (as the case with the Family found in Mercury Suites). Should the article include individual citizens who are not part of the spliced population, such as Andrew Ryan, Tenenbaum, Julie Langford and so on in Bioshock, or Grace Holloway, Sofia Lamb, Augustus Sinclair etc. in Bioshock 2? Not to mentioned the removed Survivor model from the second game. Opinions? - Tricksteroffools (talk) 23:08, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

No, those characters have their own page. This page is just for the models used for background characters with little to no dialogue. 46.7.95.98 23:32, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Look at the identifying text.

To answer your question Tricksteroffools, it's neither. "Rapture Citizen" is a type designation not a model name designation.

Thuggish Splicer is a type, Brute Splicer is a type, Houdini Splicer is a type. One might even consider "Corpse" as a type. It doesn't matter what model is used for these types. Almost any Splicer model (Lady Smith, Breadwinner, Dr. Grossman, Pigskin, etc.) can be a Leadhead Splicer type. Similarly Baby Jane, Rosebud, and Crawler can ALL be Spider Splicers even though these are very different models from seperate games.

Rapture Citizen is a designation for a non-hostile, LIVING individual encountered in Rapture. I refer you to the picture above. If one examines the body, the identifying text indicates the "type" of lootable container. In any of the games, the text might read "Corpse," "Leadhead Splicer," ""Bouncer," etc. Here, it reads Rapture Citizen. I hope this clears up any questions.

Unownshipper (talk) 00:43, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Small Issues to be Addressed

These are some minor issues of wording I'd like to discuss here rather than through back and forth edits.

1. The Appearance section.

There are currently 9 male and 6 female models listed. I think this is excessive, particularly because several of the models listed are one-shot individuals. The shopkeepers at The Golden Rule, Rapture Records, and The Gallery of the Artist's Struggle, the doorman at Little Wonders Educational Facility, and the Sun and Moon Dancers all have unique models. It's not like their body models are distinct and their heads are simply chosen at random, they're just as unique as the bodies.

The educator at Little Wonders is different. While her torso is unique,through different playthroughs I've seen that she has a different generic female head each time. The Appearance section should list out the models whose heads and torsos may be swapped at random to generate the Rapture Citizens

Proposition: Why not list the shopkeepers, dancers, and doorman as Character Specific models similar to how Cohen's disciples are arranged under the Toasty article?

2. The Accessories

Despite the edit, this line has been returned to how it was: There are about six outfit models per male and female Rapture Citizen in various color combinations and accessories.

In all the other Appearance sections, the word "accessory" has been used in a very specific meaning. In those cases, an accessory is a item of clothing that is not permanently attached to the model, but rather may be added at random. Think Baby Jane's rose, Breadwinner's fedora, Rosebud's goggles, or Ducky's cap.

In this case, the only "accessories" are the men's hats and glasses. All of the gloves, necklaces, etc. worn by the women are the same throughout the torsos as those are a part of the model.

I'm trying to keep the use of the word consistent across all the pages, so I'm going to remove " and accessories" from the line as I find it misleading.

3. The Waiters in the Behind the Scenes section.

• Some of the waiters seen in Burial at Sea bear a striking resemblance to a Breadwinner model in BioShock 2, with both their outfit and facial features.

I'd hardly call this a "striking" resemblance. This may be seen as an issue of semantics, but I'm quite sincere. The waiters don't have anything in common with Breadwinner other than a single-breasted jacket. They don't have sagging faces, torn clothes, tumors, mobster-sounding voice, or pompador haircuts.

Yes, one Bredwinner model in BioShock 2 wears a black pants and a white coat, but that one (with its peaked lapel and wilting flower) is suppose to resemble a white dinner jacket while the model in BaSE2 (with its notched, narrower lapel) is more clearly staff clothes. On top of that, this all sounds more like Trivia than Behind the Scenes information.

4. Burial at Sea - Episode 2

There are no Rapture Citizens in Burial at Sea - Episode 2. As discussed in an above section, Rapture Citizen is a "type" designation similar to Thuggish Splicer or Nitro Splicer. Though the models are seen in Fontaine's Department Store, they are only seen as Corpses, which in itself is a type designation.

All of Atlas' men are Early Splicers with the exception of Lonnie who has his own unique model. Again, semantics, but we need to be consistent with our use here as words matter.

Unownshipper (talk) 01:29, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

I reviewed and agree with your proposition so I changed the numbers and made a little section below of "unique" models, and also tweaked the conditions, solidifying that the section is meant for variants, not overall non-spliced models. Let me know if you'd like me to change or further edit it! I'll see when I can replay Burial at Sea and take screenshots of the possible variants. If so, would you like just face variants or hair variants (mainly for the females) as well?

I'll have to double check and test if assessories interchange in the female models, but for the time being I've removed that section.

I'll wasn't the one to write this trivia note so I'll leave it up to the original poster to argue the fact.

For Burial at Sea, I'd like to say that Atlas' followers should be considered as Rapture Citizens. I don't mean the corpses or dead models or the Early Splicers that would have been part of his "army", but Atlas' followers that we meet in the Test-Drive safe house for instance. We cannot say that all of Atlas' men were spliced up to some degree, and by their looks and interaction with Elizabeth show no signs that they are ADAM users. We also know that men like Lonnie or Johnny had not spliced and were part of his ranks. - Tricksteroffools (talk) 02:46, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Good work, thanks. The section looks better now, I think. What would be very helpful is if you could get pictures of all the models' heads, crop them, and put them together in one collage so that we don't have like 10 pics of peoples' faces. Think the images in other Appearance sections.

I can assure you they don't change, but you're more than welcome to couble check.

I had completely forgotten about the individuals hauled up in Test-Drive. Those ones can certainly be counted as RCs, but I'd still hesitate to call the other people that menacingly hang around Atlas when Elizabeth brings over the "Ace In the Hole" or that drag away Comstock's body anything other than Early Splicers because of the models thwy use.

In an above post, someone mentioned that it's not right to count sane people like Brigid Tenenbaum, Andrew Ryan, Frank Fontaine, Julie Langford, Grace Holloway, etc. as Rapture Citizens. RCs are a type and these are not fightable enemies, they're major characters. Their ADAM use is unclear/irrelevant.

Unownshipper (talk) 06:04, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

I'll try to work on this page and others to either expand or remove non-essential information or update pages given the latest lore we've compiled. I'll do 3 photo sets, 1 of the various headshots of the models' heads, 1 of the clothing (male/ female separate), and then 1 for the "Special" unique models, just in case, and I'll post them on this talk page for verification before posting the image on this page. As far as they're arranged, I'll take reference with the other appearance images and consult you on how you'd like them to be arranged.

Agreed, I do believe the others are Splicers, as is Lonnie. that or he is deranged.  Either case, I'll edit out the corpses portion and leave Atlas' crew (Or what remains) who are held out in Test Drive. Probably detail what they've done before Elizabeth and Bookers arrival to the Department Store?

As far as Rapture Civilians, should the removed Survivor be accounted for in the Bioshock 2 section under the Partygoer model? Or mentioned in the Behind the Scene section, if at all? - Tricksteroffools (talk) 07:40, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your cooperation. I look forward to how this turns out.

"Probably detail what they've done before Elizabeth and Bookers arrival to the Department Store?" Sure I guess if you can find the information.

I think Survivors should be left as their own thing. While Rapture Citizens are non-hostile, we don't know if Survivors were meant to be allies, enemies, or indifferent to Subject Delta. Also, there's the point that Rapture Citizen is just a Type. A Spider Splicer can utilize several Splicer models (Crawler, Baby Jane, Rosebud, Toasty, etc). Similiarly, a Rapture Citizen can utilize different models: the Partygoer or the models seen in Burial at Sea.

Ideally, I'd like to see a seperate page devoted to the collection of models seen on Market Street and High Street, but we don't know those models' names. Until/if we ever do, they can stay on here.

Unownshipper (talk) 20:39, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

Women of Rapture as seen in Burial at Sea - Episode 1

Men of Rapture as seen in Burial at Sea - Episode 1

So I was able to compile the head variation and at least one version of each character model (With the exception of the female instructor and news vendor). Let me know if you'd like for me to rearrange things, retake photos, or resize, etc. Tricksteroffools (talk) 17:25, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Tricksteroffools, these are very good! How did you get these? This is very helpful, I had no idea there were so many male heads (or that the white ones outnumbered the POCs two to one). I like the way you arranged these into perfect rectangles.

I don't have any real concerns, just a question. That's clearly the render of the body model for BAS's Yi Suchong, right? It's a little stretched out horizontally. Isn't that model simply reused from the one's used by Drs. P. Pettifog and Harrison Powell? Is that model seen anywhere other than Dr. Suchong's Free Clinic?

Unownshipper (talk) 05:43, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

I started Burial at Sea up on my computer and took screenshots using the Steam service. Taking photos of the body models was easy and all a matter of lighting or positioning. Taking photos of the heads proved difficult since it was sometimes difficult to get close to the characters as they seem to have invisible walls preventing me to situate myself close to them or even in front of them. It was trial and error to have the citizens turn their head and I took multiple shots just to capture the monent their faces face me. Hopefully I got all of the body and head variations. I'll do one final run through and maybe check Atlas' crew in Test-Drive

I examined Suchongs lab coat with the coats found on the Columbian doctors and found that they are actually different models. Suchongs model wears boots while the Columbia models wear shoes, Suchong wears green gloves that the other doctors lack and also wears an apron over his lab coat. The collar of either lab coats is also different. Suchong's face model, despite being behind a mask, does appear to be Asian. As far as the model being only seen in the free clinic, I'm not certain of this, but in the upper window in the same hall as the Little Wonders Facility in Market Street, you can see a pair of doctors observing the Little Sisters from above. Thats the only other instance I can recall. Tricksteroffools (talk) 17:25, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

The "Appearance" section

Should the Appearance section be renamed? Since it's more for pages on actual Character models rather than types. I was thinking something like Generic Models, since the models in Burial at Sea are randomized and don't seem to have unique names like the Splicer models.

The same could be done for the Appearance section on the Corpse. What do you guys think?

Night at the Kashmir (talk) 17:42, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

It was labeled "Appearance" for the sake of continuity with the formatting of other pages. I'd actually really appreciate it if someone who finds access to the game files of Burial at Sea can reveal what the code names for the models are called. There MUST be some name for them. Once we know it we can make the individual page(s) just like for the Partygoer.

I actually think an individual page can/ought to be made for the three Corpse models: CorpseMale, CorpseFemale, CorpseCrispy. On the male and female paged their models from BioShock and BioShock 2 can be outlined. Thus we'd have another case of one page for type and separate pages for model, in keeping with this site's layout.

Unownshipper (talk) 18:33, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Would we really need an individual page for each corpse model? Even if we did include the info from all three models on a male and female page there still wouldn't be a lot of info since they have no dialogue. Although it would allow more room for pictures of the model renders.

Night at the Kashmir (talk) 19:34, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

Removed Trivia

The following are trivia details removed from the main page:

• Several of the model heads seen in Burial at Sea are based off of famous actors and actresses:
  • Two of the female model variations bears a resemblance to Audrey Hepburn and Elizabeth Taylor.
  • One of the male models bears resemblance to Kevin Spacey.

Unownshipper (talk) 17:18, July 22, 2019 (UTC)

A baby

Is a baby in a carriage at the very beginning of the game considered a citizen?

Screenshots:

Screenshot 2019-10-21-13-42-57-1.png

Screenshot 2019-10-21-13-43-01-1.png

Screenshot 2019-10-21-13-43-09-1.png

User:МХК46, 13:48, October 21, 2019 (UTS).

Sure, I suppose it is. It serves the same function as all the other Rapture Citizen character types. However, it would be counted as a unique model not appearing anywhere else.

Unownshipper (talk) 19:58, October 23, 2019 (UTC)

Yss i think so! I think you should also say that the model seems to be Elizabeth's baby model, only blonde and with a pink towel and itis seen in Paris.

;) --JollyHarriet (talk) 22:09, October 23, 2019 (UTC)

Will you add somewhere?

User:МХК46 (talk) 7:46, October 24, 2019 (UTS)