Re: my response to your editEdit
That is completely fine, and I'm glad that you added the quote :). In matter of facts, User:UpgradeTech (if you see this: thank you!) has added the soundfiles and provided the correct format, so every thing worked out.
Sorry for the outburst Edit
I recognize my reaction was overblown and I apologize. Everyone is welcome to do helpful edits to this wiki and hopefully you haven't been discouraged. --Relativus (talk) 21:17, November 9, 2017 (UTC)
What wasn't duplicate information was wrongEdit
I know you may have put a lot of work into your additions, but a lot of work does not make them correct or that the work is in the proper location. The idea that the Peppermill is based on the 50. Rimfire 1865 Gatling Gun and the Volley Gun/Nail Fire is based on the 1983 Milkor MGL Grenade Launcher (Not Mikor) is pure speculation unless it can be backed up by some kind of proof. Most all Gatling guns from the era look very similar and probably more than one weapon inspired the Peppermill. As for the Volley Gun/Hail Fire, the Milkor has only a passing resemblance to them (Mostly in the magazine area, but there are other weapons that use that same basic design such as the Manville Gas Gun from the 1930's. If you want to make additions to the wiki, be careful and know what you are talking about, know how to format stuff properly, don't assume things, keep speculation to a minimum (and only very solid speculation is allowed) and make sure it not already on the wiki someplace. A lot of very informed and dedicated people have worked on this wiki for many years. Take the time to look how the wiki runs. sm --Solarmech (talk) 19:23, November 11, 2017 (UTC)
- Frankly, what some other wiki says means nothing unless they have proof to back it up. And they don't list any sources as proof. sm --Solarmech (talk) 16:24, November 13, 2017 (UTC)
If there is no real source of information for Saltonstall's VA, then there is nothing to be doneEdit
Nothing can be done about it really, unless info comes from Ken Levine himself or anyone else from Irrational. And I don't have a Twitter account (or intend to make one, ever) to ask them. So in the words of Elsa, let it go. Relativus (talk) 19:07, January 1, 2018 (UTC)
Infinite's Cylinder Recordings Edit
I actually own a copy of Polk Miller's "Bonnie Blue Flag" on the original Blue Amberol 2175 and Black Amberol 389 issued for Edison's phonographs which shows the name stamped on the ends of the cylinders.
This is a video recording of the Blue Amberol I made some time ago.
Unfortunately, the cylinder has suffered from some plaster loss causing a skip at around 3:50 But on the whole, the recording matches the extracted version from the game files in cadence and intonation.
There are some speed variations due to the recording being done on an antique Edison phonograph which has its own quirks in the spring compared to the version licensed for the same which was made on a different machine.
As for Harry McCarthy, he wrote the song in 1861 and apparently died in 1888.
While wax cylinders did exist during this year as a more permanent version of the tinfoil phonograph, copies could not be made. If Mr. McCarthy wanted more than one copy, he would have had to repeat the song many times over into a recording horn onto a blank during the year he died, each with varying qualities in the performance.
In addition, these early cylinders frequently wore out and relatively few manage to survive to the present day to be identified. More durable and mass-produced cylinders that could be molded would not come about until the early 1900s.
I am unable to find evidence that McCarthy was able to record his voice for posterity on such a cylinder. However, both issues of Polk Miller's "Bonnie Blue Flag" appear in the UC Santa Barbara cylinder database.
Please Godzillafan4ever, stow the attitude. It is not a good thing to automatically assume you are right and other people are wrong without some real proof (and I'm sorry your parents are dead wrong). Frankly talking down to UpgradeTech about music from this time period is nothing short of being incredibly arrogant and brain dead stupid. He has shown to have an mastery of the subject that few can match as well as access to original source material. If you want to add to this wiki GET REAL PROOF, no hearsay or "I think". sm --Solarmech (talk) 13:32, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
Burial at Sea Licensed Soundtrack Edit
Regarding your recent edits to the Burial at Sea Licensed Soundtrack page, they will most likely be undone or edited. We greatly appreciate your input, but there were some formatting issues with the new additions that need fixing.
Also, while it's great to share information, some of it was just trivial. The fact that the song was whistled derisively has no bearing on that page; rather, that info should be shared in the Burial at Sea section of the Artemis Suites page. Or the fact that the songwriter was a sergeant, it's an interesting tidbit, but it's not necessary information for the Burial at Sea Licensed Soundtrack article. A page like that should be just the facts.
Just wanted to explain.
Cohen's Scherzo Edit
I think that your edit to Cohen's Scherzo was undone because the video was not posted properly. New content is appreciated, but it does no good if someone has to go back in later to fix a mistake as that can mess up the Wiki's formatting. Also, looking back over the edit, you added an opinion and trivia in your edit; that's supposition and that's against the site's Trivia Policy
Here's a direct link to the BioShock Wiki Policy article which itself contains links to the style guide and other useful pages. Please check them out for adding content to the site. If you have questions, feel free to reach out to Admins like User:Mainframe98 or myself or another fellow editor. Also, please don't take offense if someone undoes an edit, it's nothing personal.
Battleship Bay Edit
I undid your edit to Battleship Bay because it was trivia and an opinion at that. Plenty of racists in early 20th Century still enjoyed Ragtime and Jazz so why should Columbia not feature a popular piece of music even though it was written by and Irishman? Rapture is atheistic but it features Billie Holiday's "God Bless the Child."
More to the point, it is tiresome that you'd add trivia after I included the link to the Wiki's policy against Trivia. The other link I provided also connected to the Manual of Style, but regardless one should know that proper grammar and capitalization are a basic policy here (your sentence: "given Columbia's Xenophobic Beliefs this choice of music would be Ironic, given Lover's Irish Heritage"). Please adhere to the guidelines when adding content.
Finally, for your edits to the BioShock Infinite Original Soundtrack and Burial at Sea Original Soundtrack, I believe those were written that way because that's how they were officially credited not because there was a policy against revealing their first name. You don't have to be an Idiot Savant to lack knowledge of musical composition.
This is becoming trying. I've stated previously how trivia is not permitted on this site. I've also included links to policy guides so that you can add content or format pages within the guidelines of this wiki's rules. I've even offered to help if you have questions or need assistance, but you haven't reached out to me or Mainframe98.
To be frank, a lot of your edits, while well-intentioned I'm sure, have become disruptive lately. Your recent edits to the BioShock Infinite Licensed Soundtrack article were starting to jumble up the formatting. The "kiddie-talk" edit to the Little Sisters article shouldn't have gone in the Behind the Scenes section especially since that point had pretty much already been made earlier in the article. Do I really need to explain how your opinion that Augustus Sinclair sounds like Matthew Perry is trivia?
If I'm sounding like I'm irritated it's because it feels like you're disregarding the comments that I (or your fellow contributors) are taking the time to point out here on your Talk Page in order to help you.
Re: potential addition Edit
First of all, let me say that I'm very happy to see you taking me up on my offer to help when needed. It demonstrates a desire to make constructive edits on this site and be a member of the community rather than just a desire to make an edit for the attention of having your username appear on a board (we've had problems with those kind of users in the past).
Second, I'd like it to be known that I don't hold grudges, nor am I "sore" at you or any editor here. I just want to carry out the policies of this site effectively, minimize disruptions, and want to feel like I'm not wasting my time. Saying you'll do better is one thing, but actually practicing that (like you are now) is much, much better.
As for the links you came across, it's always interesting to hear music from the time period of BioShock, but I have concerns about adding these ones to the BioShock 2 Licensed Soundtrack article. I'm wary because the YouTube videos read "Music that 2K Marin had the rights to but didn't feature in Bioshock 2 according to Wikipedia." It's the fact that this info comes from Wikipedia, where anyone can add whatever info they want true or untrue. Even you yourself note that they songs that were "supposedly" cut. Do we have any verified citations that prove these claims?
Under the Additional Songs section of BioShock Licensed Soundtrack page, you'll see several lists of songs including ones where only a snipper plays in the game, ones that only appear in the game files, and even ones licensed for the game but that do not appear in the final version or in any of the game files. This latter one most closely identifies what you've found, but in this case there's a verifiable citation instead of just Wikipedia. With that in mind, unless you come across more evidence, I'd argue against adding any of these songs to the BioShock 2 Licensed Soundtrack page.
- I don't know how to do that either. You'd have to personally ask another user who is adept at reading game code to help you with that. Everyone here has their own tasks that they're working on, so they're probably not going to take care of this unless you reach out to them.
- You might check with UpgradeTech (he might be able to check, but if he doesn't know where to look it could potentially be difficult) or Mainframe98 (he might have some other contributors in mind).
- There was a broadcast of Rapture Radio used for the promotion of the release of Bioshock 2 back in February 2010. Unfortunately, much of the broadcast was not archived. This Joystiq article had a sample of the broadcast.
- Other than that, there were fan-transcribed lists of the music that played on the station back in 2010.
- The only songs that were taken from Wikipedia were "Put 'em in a Box" and "Happy Feet" which were marked with a dagger (†) though that could have been made clearer. Though the Wikipedia article had most of the other songs, these two were also listed, but I couldn't find them anywhere else. However, since there is no actual recording of the broadcast, it cannot be proven either way.
- These songs are not in the game files and apparently were only used for the Rapture Radio broadcast. I actually am familiar with that Youtube channel and I conversed with him over trying to put a date to an obscure version of a couple of songs used in LA Noire. UpgradeTech (talk) 08:28, March 18, 2018 (UTC)
- I can find no evidence that these songs were actually considered for use in the final game nor is there evidence in the game files. I actually wrote that portion of the Rapture Radio page back in 2014 to clarify this.
- At most, a See Also could be added to the BioShock 2 Licensed Soundtrack page, but it is already covered by the sentence: "Before BioShock 2's release, a promotional Rapture Radio broadcast was held from February 9, 2010 to April 29 which previewed the in-game soundtrack as well as several others." UpgradeTech (talk) 09:00, March 19, 2018 (UTC)
- So UpgradeTech summed things up pretty well. The song list is already addressed, and I can't see a reason to pursue this further. The status of the New Year's Eve Broadcast is nebulous on this site. It appears that it was created by a promotion company as opposed to 2K itself and it's narrative shouldn't be considered canon. With that in mind, I don't want to promote it any further on this Wiki than it already is.
BioShock Licensed Soundtrack Edit
I'm giving you this heads up to notify you that I'll be rolling back your recent edits to the BioShock Licensed Soundtrack article. Your efforts are noted, but that amount of detail is not needed and in some cases not appropriate for the chart. For example, "Rosalie" and "Too Young" aren't even heard in the game, so it's not necessary to give more than the most basic info on them since we don't even know which version is licensed. "You're Getting to be a Habit with Me" was licensed but even less info is known about its file.
I can appreciate how interested you are in music and recording history, but instead of posting all of this information on the main page, would you instead go to the Talk Page on each of these Licensed Soundtrack pages and share this trivia. That would be more in line with the content policy of this site.
- Three things:
- 1. I was not aware that you were Autistic, but I will bear that in mind in future.
- 2. It's not that it's "alien" to me. As an Administrator I have access to a special feature called "Rollback" which undoes all edits made in a row by a contributor until it reaches the previous editor. That is the quickest and most effective way to return a page to its previous state. So while it removed all of the supplemental details about the other contributors, it also removed the thing about Crosby at the same time.
- 3. After someone undoes your edits to an article and begins to offer an explanation on your Talk page, do NOT go back to the article, add the info back in, and make a response comment in the Summary section. That is how an Edit War begins, the use of capitalization and the exclamation point strikes a bad tone, and the whole action comes off as unprofessional by making it appear that we're fighting in public. What you should do is offer a counter explanation on the other person's Talk and please have the courtesy to wait for their response before re-editing.
- Furthermore, the inclusion of "You're Getting to be a Habit with Me" comes from a secondhand source: this post by Major Nelson on his blog. As you can see from the listing, that song is cryptically listed as having Harry Edison and Bing Crosby as Artist. Big Crosby did a recording in 1933 but Harry Edison ALSO did one in 1957 and it is impossible to determine which cover was used since the song was licensed but does not appear in the final version of the game files.
- That is the reason why both men are listed, that is the reason why the note is included, and that is the reason why it is improper to add the info about Guy Lombardo or the date 1933 since we don't even know which cover was selected. I would've gladly explained all of that to you calmly had you not re-added the content and responded to me in the condescending and emotional way you did.
- That's fine and that's your prerogative, but a basic tenet of internet communication is that all caps and exclamation marks come across as shouting at someone. That's why you shouldn't try to explain a point in the Edit Summary section where character space limited. Rather, save that for an editor's Talk page where you can express yourself clearly and without restrictions. And when doing that, consider the tone of your reply so that you don't come off as patronizing (ex. "why is the fact that Bing crosby didn't really record his version of it, being a mere collaborator, alien to you??").
- And, once again, I urge you to continue to do that kind of research on the music stuff, it's all very interesting, but add it to a Talk Page because at the end of the day it's trivia and that's where trivia goes.
Thanks for responding so quickly, but please post your replies on the Police (Columbia) Talk Page so that we have a centralized location for the answers to these questions. Would you please repost your answer there?
07:12, June 5, 2018 (UTC)
BioShock Infinite Licensed Soundtrack Edit
I'm going to ask that you stop and step back from the edits you've made to the BioShock Infinite Licensed Soundtrack article. We can come back and conclude them, but right now, it's just making things worse. It's fine to not be an expert at coding. It's great to admit mistakes. But continuing to add stuff and further messing with the article's coding is not helpful. Reach out to someone who's experienced with coding, make a practice version on your own Talk Page, or do something else, but do not continue making these edits please.
I've discussed this topic with you before, so I find it aggravating to have to repeat a similar subject.
Re: apology Edit
Dude, there's no need for melodrama. Please listen, I'm not angry at you or anyone, if I were I would have banned you. Anytime I am critical of an edit I always try to make it constructive criticism, but it can become exhausting. I'm just trying to keep this site running as effectively as possible along with my fellow admins and editors.
I appreciate your apology, I really do but ask yourself why you want to edit on this site. I have a feeling you have your own area of expertise to contribute to this Wiki, and that's great but you've got to be a team player and operate within the rules of this site. If you'll look over your Talk Page, you'll see a number of our users have taken the time to engage with you (I myself have posted more than 5 times and I've tried to be polite and professional each time) so I hope you don't feel unwanted here. This is a community, and all are welcome to be a part of it. All that's required is that you work with us.
The best way to do that is to show that you're actually listening to the feedback that you're being given. Communicate with fellow contributors, follow the policies when editing, and when in doubt raise a question by creating a post on an article's Talk Page. I promise you, the people on here will be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you'll just engage with them. Spare us the metaphorical self-flagellation, histrionics don't help, and instead demonstrate through actions that you can be a trusted member of the team.
RE: misinformation Edit
Hi, I can answer your question for you:
All your edits to BioShock 2 Licensed Soundtrack were rejected because you tripped the abuse filter; specifically the filter against adding Trivia sections. On the BioShock wiki, we use Behind the scenes sections instead. The filter prohibits adding Trivia section and should show a warning like below:
Warning: An automated filter has detected that you are trying to add a Trivia section. Trivia sections are not allowed on the BioShock Wiki. Instead, you should use Behind the Scenes sections, as detailed by our Trivia Policy.
If you believe this message is displayed in error, please contact an administrator to report this error.
As for the "extension hook" reference, that is an infamously unclear error message. Hopefully, with Wikia's change to newer software, that error message will become better. —Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 13:29, November 16, 2019 (UTC)
The Differences between a Rifle and A CarbineEdit
For one thing, please make sure to sign you edits. As for the differences between a rifle and a carbine, there are several factors. One is barrel length. Carbines generally have a barrel length of under 20 inches. Over that and it's considered a rifle. Carbines are also lighter in weight than full on rifles. Also in the time period, carbines used smaller/lighter/less powerful rounds. (Today, no so much but they often do). The M1/M2 Carbine use a .30 cal round that is significantly less powerful than the 7.62 (30-06) round used by the M1 Garand. --Solarmech (talk) 18:47, April 18, 2020 (UTC)