RE: Your Wiki Manager[edit source]

I realized I never responded to your message, so here's a belated welcome!

I had read the blog post about the Wiki Managers, but not realized we'd also be having a Wiki Manager, nonetheless, we're happy you're here! The BioShock Wiki has managed to create its own special place on the Fandom network. Compared to other wikis, we have a small team of dedicated volunteers and a relatively low rate of changes, but we've managed to stay up to date so far. Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 14:38, June 21, 2019 (UTC)

RE: "BioShock series" page[edit source]

I imagine that the page will have a nice place as an overview page in Template:Media.

As for the page itself, there are a few minor things, but I like the page overall.

  • BioShock 2's multiplayer was not provided in the remaster, and was never a stand-alone game as such. Therefore, I think it would be better if it had a header level 4, to signify that it isn't a full game in and of itself. That would also make the TOC list the BioShock games numbered correctly, which then ties into the lead section which mentions three games + one upcoming one.
  • We have the {{Upcoming}} template. It would probably be a good idea to add it to the Untitled BioShock game section.
  • The article should have the navbox {{Media}} at the bottom. That template can then link to the series page in its header (where it says Games and other media in the BioShock series). It would combine great with the See also section.
  • Finally, I don't think the Gameplay section is wholly accurate for the series. Especially BioShock is not an RPG; a large plot point centers around this. Only BioShock and BioShock 2 have any choice element (the little sisters), BioShock Infinite has only a few minor ones with no plot/story impact at all. Especially the sentence "The player is provided with machines that allows them to craft custom animation, traps and hacking devices." only applies to the first two games, with Infinite only providing vending machines, rather than offering any crafting machinery. I'm also not sure what custom animation refers to. It is also missing one huge gameplay element: Plasmids/Vigors!
  • Finally, and I'm not sure if this should go under Gameplay or a separate section (or go on the page at all), the social commentary/critique/aesop of the BioShock games (all of them have them) is an important part as well. There is a reason Rapture is the way it is the way you find in it BioShock, as well how Sofia Lamb was so influential, yet not really that different from Andrew Ryan when it came to in BioShock 2. Not to mention BioShock Infinite depiction of Columbia.

Nonetheless, thanks for going through the effort of creating the page. The issues above should be easy to address. I'd recommend contacting a few of our other admins/content moderators as well (Unownshipper and Shacob are the most active); I'm sure they have some additional input that is helpful.

Good luck with catching up with your backlog - the BioShock games are a great way to unwind! Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 10:09, February 3, 2020 (UTC)

RE: "BioShock series" page - Shacob[edit source]

Hi and welcome from my part as well.

I'm all for this idea, it is actually something I've thought about myself several times before but never put in the effort. The main reason I want this page, besides for new visitors, is so that we can actually link the words "BioShock series" to an actual page on the subject. Until now we have mostly linked it to BioShock, which is not correct. You have my approval to create the page.

As for the page itself, Mainframe98 has already stated the main issues, so there is not much to say, but here are some notes:

  • While they fall under DLC, I do think the Challenge Rooms, Minerva's Den and Clash in the Clouds should have their own sections. Or at least Minerva's Den as, just like, Burial at Sea, it is a story-based addition. If not individual sections, Challenge Rooms, and Clash in the Clouds should at least be mentioned.
  • I'm not sure Loading Screen Quotes needs to be linked in See Also, but BioShock in Other Media and BioShock Merchandise should and maybe Characters and Levels.
  • As BioShock's logo will appear further down on the page, so I'm thinking that the main image should be changed, perhaps a collage of all three game covers or this image for BioShock: The Collection, as it shows both Rapture and Columbia.
  • I'm thinking that maybe the books and boardgame should all be under Other Media and under additional subheaders for Novels and Boardgame.

Some of that might be subjective, but here is my take. Overall great work on your part!

--Shacob (talk) 19:15, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

RE: "BioShock series" page - Unownshipper[edit source]

Hi there, thanks for reaching out to me for my input with this project. I want to start by offering my sincere apologies for taking so long to respond, work and life sometimes get in the way, but as for the BioShock Series page, I agree with Mainframe98 and Shacob in recognizing the merit this article would offer the site. I see they've offered some great suggestions already, here's some recommendations from me.

  • I think the article should be accessible via either the Games or Other dropdown of the BioShock Wiki tabber.
  • I like how you've listed out the narrative-driven DLCs like Minerva's Den and Burial at Sea under their associated games and separated the combat-focused ones like Challenge Rooms and The Protector Trials under a catchall Downloadable Content section. I would like to request that you change the text to highlight that these non-narrative games are non-canon as are the novels like BioShock: Rapture (Novel).
  • Not to disagree with my esteemed colleague, but I don't think Levels or Characters need to be included under See Also. I do agree that Loading Screen Quotes aren't needed there.
  • I'd like to contribute the opening paragraph below.

The BioShock series is a video game franchise created by Ken Levine of Irrational Games and published by 2K Games. The main series consists of three action-adventure, horror-themed first-person video games. In addition to the three landmark games, there have been more than a half dozen secondary games, two novels, and a shelved film adaptation. The latest venture is an upcoming untitled BioShock game.

Thanks again for taking the incentive with this project and reaching out. Please let me know if I can help with anything in the future.

Unownshipper (talk) 03:11, February 18, 2020 (UTC)

RE: Main Page changes[edit source]

Thanks for putting in the effort to fix the main page. Ever since (then) Wikia made some changes for higher-res screens, the main portal has been bugged like you've pointed out. It's something that annoyed me, but I didn't have a good idea on how to improve it, so I just left it. It's not as bad on my iPad, so I generally forget about it too. There was an attempt at an improvement over at BioShock Wiki/test, but that never got off the ground. If you'd like to test there to get a more "production" like feel, feel free to use that page as an on-wiki demo.

That said, I like the demo on w:c:shrev64. The contents box feels a bit on the large side, but that might be because it contains more games with larger logo's. I'd like to see that one with the logo's of the BioShock games for comparison. The introduction text feels like it could be fleshed out a bit more, but I can't suggest an improvement at the moment. I'm sure either Shacob or Unownshipper can think of something.

I'm not sure if linking to categories (that are not game categories) is such a good idea, but that might be because I'm used to navigate based on the game and typically use the search bar for a specific article. Looking at Special:Analytics, most of our visitors are on mobile and will not use the classic main page. The mobile main page has a wiki description that could possibly be re-used and uses the game categories as Featured Categories, with Category:BioShock Setting as an additional category. Perhaps that is something that could be used. If you cannot access these, let me know, I'll provide you with admin rights (I couldn't confirm if you are able to use that based on Special:Listgrouprights).

Finally, I've never had the feeling that your suggestions were mandatory requirements. You've just brought up something that's in need of improvement and that's something I appreciate. Please keep it up! The combined effort of our editors make this wiki great! Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 07:55, April 2, 2020 (UTC)

The 4 portals as they appear on my laptop.

I also applaud the incentive in making the main page better, it's definitely something worth considering. I'll address your points in the order you brought them up with anything I can offer.
For me personally, the logos and links on the individual game portals aren't a problem. As you can see from the image at right, the logos all appear (although I noticed that's only after you scroll down the page, I'm not sure why) and almost all the links appear normally within the boundary (only a couple from BioShock 2 slip past the edge). I'm at a loss as to why the placement of the links look different from the images (Image 1 Image 2 Image 3 Image 4) you provided on your Discord pages, because both my laptop and work computer look like the image at right. Has there been an update between me posting this and your original post or is this simply a case of different screen resolutions impacting the links in the portals?
I really appreciate your suggestions for how to improve the navigation features. Too often people's approach leans towards the "this is awful, fix it now," side of discourse. That being said, and this is just my personal opinion, I personally loathe content portals that lead directly to category pages. My problem is that I think they look shabby or utilitarian. There's no way to organize things on there other than alphabetically which is rarely helpful. Additionally, they don't curate the information in a useful way, so a new-comers' experience to the games can be impacted. Take for example the Category:BioShock page which boldly displays under its "Trending" section links to Rapture (useful), BioShock (useful), Code (a minor spoiler), Would You Kindly (an extreme spoiler), Power to the People (slightly useful but also kind of niche), and Extra Little Sister Bug (a rarely occurring glitch). Not exactly convenient especially for a first-time visitor.
I like the effort you've put into the mock-up but like Mainframe98 I'd love to see how it'd look when more personalized. I'm a visual thinker and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this. I like the idea of expanding the welcome text and including a link to the newly created BioShock series page, but I don't see the use in having both a "Welcome to the BioShock Wiki" area and a separate "Contents" area when our current format accomplishes both in one streamlined section.
Of course these objections don't mean the conversation ends here, just that this issue will benefit from further discussion/brainstorming. Please understand I'm not hankering for the status quo all for the sake of avoiding change. To Mainframe's points, I'd be more than happy to help compose or contribute a more fleshed-out greeting, and I too mostly use the search bar for navigation. Just my two cents. I look forward to seeing how this can be further developed and being part of that process.

Unownshipper (talk) 19:58, April 2, 2020 (UTC)
Wow, thank you so much for the valuable feedback! First of all, apologies for the delay, I had some other projects come up so I'm just now getting around to this. After mulling around a little bit, I also agree with your points that linking directly to categories doesn't seem like a good idea. Luckily you guys already have pages set up such as BioShock Characters, etc that'll make this a lot easier.
I didn't know about the BioShock Wiki/test test page; to be honest, I like how the layout of that test page compared to what I came up with. When I was developing my draft, my main concern was maintaining the navigation that is set up on the current main page, while still laying out all of the information to the user to avoid technical issues like the ones that I was experiencing (for what it's worth, I tried viewing it on both 1080p and 1440p resolutions and was still running into the same issues), as the end goal is to avoid "hiding" information from the user. In any case, I'll probably end up combining the ideas of the test page and my test wiki.
As for changes made since we last discussed:
The content box might still be a bit large and I'll have to tinker with the size of it to figure it out.
As always, these are very much in-progress works and are free to be tweaked in any way. Let me know what you all think. Thanks for your cooperation and feedback. -- Shrev64 (Talk page)
Hmmm, I think I like the intro layout of the second template, but combined with the hover logos of the first template.
I don't like the list of pages below the logo, at least not in the vertical stack it is now. HTML limits the ability to neatly create columns, but we have {{column}}, that could divide the list into two (or three) rows below the logo.
The intro text works for me, but is the word database appropriate? I don't associate a wiki with a database, but that might just be me. Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 10:10, April 24, 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback again, as always. I made the changes you made and have made pages in my sandbox. To start...
Obviously, it looks pretty compressed when viewed in my sandbox, but if you were to copy this code to the Main page and preview it, you will get a better idea of how the main page would look. As always, your thoughts and feedback are welcome and appreciated. Excited to see this going through. Thanks. -- Shrev64 (Talk page)
Your accidental edit to the main page came in handy for previewing (link) and I like the way it looks! The logos and the list of links seem to suffer from some alignment issues; the logo's and lists on the right seem to slightly higher than the one's on the left, but that should be easily fixable. I'm working on something that also uses the same column-count CSS, so I might be able to find a solution for that later, if it hasn't resolved itself by then.
In regards to discussions - we weren't part of the initial rollout, and I'm quite glad about that, given that many wikis complained about it. It's largest issue (the others were resolved over time) was that it was too disconnected from the wiki, resulting in a lot of off-topic material, or other content that required a lot of moderation from administrators. Given that the BioShock Wiki has a low edit rate, I'm personally worried that Discussions would cause a disproportionally large load on administrators. Nonetheless, it is something I can see being a valuable addition to the wiki. Something I didn't see covered on the help pages is if it would result in us losing access to our DPL-style forums. I know the newer style forums (with threads) are going away sometime in the future, but that shouldn't affect our current forum right?
Finally, Adding BioShock: The Collection to the wiki navigation is a good idea. Did you have a specific spot in mind? Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 10:43, May 10, 2020 (UTC)

(indent reset) I like how it looks. I've only got three nit picks: The border of the individual modules differ from the border used by the top module, with all the games. In my opinion, they look the best with that blue border. The second issue lies with the link columns of the games, just below the logo - they are uneven. It can be fixed by setting the margin to 0 on the p elements. However, that isn't immediately manageable in Template:Module/Intro (as the p element is generated by MediaWiki), requiring CSS tweaking instead. Finally, when viewing the main page on a Full HD screen, the text in the Contribute and Featured article module is a bit too small for my tastes. It appears that it is set to a fixed 13px, but the default of 14px works just a bit better. It also auto scales based on the available width.

In regards to changing the templates; I have no preference. In most other cases, overwriting is easier because it is less work, but given the templates are only used on the main page, that advantage is moot. I think the current approach has an implementation advantage in that it is

The move of BioShock Infinite: The Siege of Columbia in the navigation is a good suggestion; I've changed it accordingly. Thanks for that suggestion! Mainframe98 talk·blog·edits 17:50, May 14, 2020 (UTC)

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